Thief (4) Features. What we know is in, what we know is out.

Too Much Coffee on 21/4/2013 at 15:15

Can't say I am thrilled about another lockpicking minigame. Those are never very interesting and just get too repetitive by the end of the game. I was not a big fan of the one in TDS. And other games have had lock picking/hacking minigames with not much better results. They are never very convincing or remotely realistic (can your character really see into the lock tumbler?) The simple lockpicking from the original still works for me. To me, the lockpicking was never intended to be a minigame, it was intended to be a device to build tension and suspense ("hurry, get the door unlocked before the guard sees you"). Of course, if they manage to do both and make it interesting throughout the game, then I wouldn't mind.

Dia on 21/4/2013 at 15:32

'•Lockpicks - yes, and a lock-picking mini-game.'

Does this mean that every time you have to pick a lock it's going to turn into a mini-game? Hope not; I'll have to agree with TMC on this one. Do we know any hard facts about this particular feature yet? (I just don't have the time right now to go back and re-read every single article about T4.)

TDS' lockpicking system was tedious and frustrating at best, as well as (imo) very immersion-breaking. And as much as I loved Skyrim, the lockpicking system used in that game was just as much of an immersion buster (to the point that I just started using the 'unlock' command code to save time). I'm trying very hard to be positive about some of the 'known' aspects of T4 - really, truly. But turning lockpicking into a mini-game every single time you pick a lock ... I mean, really? That's gonna get really boring really fast for me. If this is something that's already a given, then all I can do is hope that EM might think to include an 'auto lock pick' feature that you could use once you reached a certain level of experience. That would at least be a tad more tolerable.

SubJeff on 21/4/2013 at 15:34

Of course your character can't see the tumbler but you can't exactly have accurate feedback for it can you?

The picking Thief 1 and 2 is the same as in Thief 3, the only difference is you only had 2 options instead of 4. Otherwise functionally it's identical. Don't be fooled by the graphics.

Too Much Coffee on 21/4/2013 at 15:51

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

Of course your character can't see the tumbler but you can't exactly have accurate feedback for it can you?

just sounds are good enough for me. It worked before. Thief was as much about sound as anything else. Again, the lockpicking was meant to be a tension building device, not a puzzle or mine-game. I wonder if it will happen in realtime, or it pauses the game to launch the minigame so you can never be caught while picking, and thus builds no tension.

Springheel on 21/4/2013 at 16:40

Quote:

just sounds are good enough for me. It worked before.

When you say "before", are your referring to other games that use a sound-based minigame for lockpicking? That was my idea for TDM, and I wasn't aware of other games doing it, either then or now. It would be nice to compare if you know of some. :)

My approach back then was to think of ways to add a skill-based element to the T1/2 lockpicking system that didn't rely on HUD elements that would obscure the game-world. We also didn't want any 'suck into place' animations. Sound became the obvious choice for feedback, and it was thinking about an old electronic "Simon Says" game from the 70s, that would beep a sequence of notes and you had to play them back, that eventually got me thinking of the system we use now.

Kuuso on 21/4/2013 at 16:46

Quote Posted by Too Much Coffee

I think they mentioned that it's real-time and you have to be cautious when picking locks (you can also use focus to help with the lockpicking).

Personally I don't mind either way. The previous Thief games have been good (if not a bit boring), but I won't mind a "minigame" of sorts if it's real-time. Oblivion/Skyrim style is just shit, because locks are just a hurdle that even a derpest of derps could figure out. System Shock2 had a minigame that was ok.

Queue on 21/4/2013 at 17:05

Quote Posted by thiefessa

Here is blackjack confirmation, but no specific details on how we use it.

Swing it? Club 'em over the head? Watch 'em fall? I'm not sure if it'd need its own manual on usage.

SubJeff on 21/4/2013 at 17:22

Does it auto raise? Is there a DXHR/Dishonored style option to kill or just knockout when in range? Do you use it as your primary melee weapon or can you optionally use a blade? If it is your primary melee weapon how do you deal with fighting against swordsmen? And so on.

Quote Posted by Kuuso

System Shock2 had a minigame that was ok.

SS2s hacking minigame was awful. It was just random.

Vivian on 21/4/2013 at 18:43

CAN EVERYONE STOP POSTING THAT CRAPPY MOCKED-UP SCREEN LIKE IT'S THE BLOODY MONA LISA

IT'S NOT FUNNY

AND NEITHER ARE YOU

also TDM lockpicking is the best lockpicking, but I would imagine we will get something a bit easier to get the hang of (no offense TDM, it's a great system once you get used to it, but it confused me for a good ten minutes and I don't think I'm alone). Although the sudden see-inside-the-lock popup was a bit jarring, I liked the TDS system. It was just about annoying enough that you could spaff it up under pressure, but it was satisfying if you managed to get it done quickly. Thief classic's progress-bar approach was an effective tension ratchet but could have used a skill aspect, however basic.

Queue on 21/4/2013 at 19:28

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

If it is your primary melee weapon how do you deal with fighting against swordsmen?

Probably you'd swing it, it knocks someone on the head, and they fall down. But I imagine it could have other uses.

A very large dildo comes to mind.

... or maybe after beating the game, it'll unlock 'Fish Mode'

[video=youtube;IhJQp-q1Y1s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s[/video]

(And yes, two people are spying on you. It's dethtoll and I outside your bathroom window.)