Thief (4) Features. What we know is in, what we know is out.

nickie on 10/7/2013 at 06:31

And on that subject, I've noticed a lot of unnecessary quoting across the threads this morning. If you're replying to a post directly before yours then there is no need to quote it.

Myth on 10/7/2013 at 08:29

Quote Posted by nickie

And on that subject, I've noticed a lot of unnecessary quoting across the threads this morning. If you're replying to a post directly before yours then there is no need to quote it.

Quoted for truth!

Dia on 10/7/2013 at 14:53

Quote Posted by operativex

For taff'n sake people, we are master thieves! Lets act like it!

Afaic, the lockpicking style of TDP & TMA seemed a tad more 'realistic' than the lockpicking minigames of TDS. In the first two games you had to listen to the sound to determine whether the picking was working, but I felt (emphasis on my own opinion here) that TDS turned it into an unnecessary minigame wherein suddenly Garrett had x-ray vision and could 'see' the inner workings of the locks. In TDP & TMA I felt more attuned to the surrounding environment while picking locks, as in noises the guards were making, etc. (ergo, more immersion in the game), but felt that TDS forced you to focus over much on the actual picking of the lock itself by forcing you to use the visualization automatically provided. So yeah, I felt more like a master thief while playing the first two games than the third.

Quote Posted by operativex

They should also include an "auto-infiltrate-the-level" feature, too. I don't want to waste my time sneaking by guards and waiting for holes in security.

All I meant was that if EM is going to include 'leveling up' in certain skills in T4, then why not allow NuGarrett to level up in his lockpicking skill as well? I think a lot of Taffers here will attest to the fact that after so many locked chests & doors the lockpicking got old, especially in the FMs wherein it was occasionally overdone (mostly by first-time authors, God bless 'em) and especially after you've been playing the original games and their respective FMs for ten years. Since you're the one who's all in favor of EM striving 'to do something new and different' (see below) I don't see why leveling up in the lockpicking skill wouldn't appeal to you.

Quote Posted by operativex

You guys are worse than most video game publishers. While EM strives to do something new and different, all you guys bitch and moan about anything that isn't identical to the previous Thief games. I'm surprised nobody is complaining about Thief being on UE3 rather than Dark Engine. Thank god creative types like EM, Christopher Nolan, Zack Snyder, J.J. Abrams, etc ignore the fans. Otherwise, every new iteration of a property would be the same....

New Horizon on 10/7/2013 at 15:00

Quote Posted by Dia

Yup, and with TDM we felt that it made sense to take the TDP & TMA version of lockpicking and add an extra layer to it. Not only do you now have to listen to see if it works, but you also have to listen for the sweet spots to know when to trigger the release of the pins within the lock. To watch it in a youtube video, you would think it was exactly the same but playing it is a whole different experience. :) No excessive huds required, just using what was already there in the first place.

DJ Riff on 10/7/2013 at 16:53

Quote Posted by Dia

TDS turned it into an unnecessary minigame wherein suddenly Garrett had x-ray vision and could 'see' the inner workings of the locks.

To be fair, you can disable those ring indicator, and then you can:
a) watch Garrett's hands
b) listen to clicks
c) use gamepad and feel the vibration
d) bruteforce it with WASD+attack

Hewer on 10/7/2013 at 16:57

I have to say that I absolutely love lockpicking in TDM. I think it's perfect- you have to develop the skill and there's no immersion busting minigame. I really just can't say enough about it.

Shinrazero on 10/7/2013 at 22:25

Agreed. Lockpicking in TDM adds a level of skill while still being familiar to the previous games. It's absolutely brilliant.

Renault on 10/7/2013 at 22:41

I think TDS lockpicking would be great if A) the HUD/onscreen thing was always disabled, and B) if there were 8 or 16 points of contact and you had to locate the "sweet spot" with the mouse instead of just WASDing on the keyboard.

The only issue with TDM lockpicking is that if you miss your opportunity during a long tumbler sequence, then you just have to sit there and wait for the sequence to finish again.

Chade on 10/7/2013 at 23:01

How else would you suggest TDM lockpicking works? I see "going back to the beginning" as a feature, not a bug.

I enjoyed TDS lockpicking as well and thought it was an improvement on earlier games. That said, it was certainly more fun before I realized you could WASD your way to victory.

Related aside: I never used the spell shortcuts as a mage in Arx Fatalis, I always thought it was more fun to have to frantically try and draw the runes correctly while that giant spider is slowly creeping towards you. Similarly, I'm a fan of adding extra skill to lockpicking whenever that skill is made meaningful because a guard might come around the corner at any minute.

This leaves the issue of what to do with locks in safe areas. It would be nice if these could be designed to avoid the "sigh, yet another mini-game" effect. We need a mechanism that can do longer drawn-out locks in patrolled corridors, as well as short but satisfying locks in safe areas.

EDIT: I wonder if it would be a good idea to have locks with small traps in them that spring whenever you fail, to add a bit of tension in those safe areas. I'm imagining a fairly small amount of damage here.

operativex on 11/7/2013 at 00:15

Quote Posted by Dia

Afaic, the lockpicking style of TDP & TMA seemed a tad more 'realistic' than the lockpicking minigames of TDS.

I just want to make sure I understand you; you think having a 50/50 chance of selecting the correct lockpick then watching to see if the handle jiggles (as the game lockpicks the door for you) is a more realistic than fiddling with the tumblers, trying to find the "sweet" spot in TDS?

I could understand if you simply didn't like lock picking in TDS because it did get tedious due to it's halfhearted implementation and frequently locked areas (like Shalebridge having EVERY cell door locked with 5 rings), but to say it's less realistic than T1/T2 is absurd.