Thief (4) Features. What we know is in, what we know is out. - by SubJeff
jtr7 on 1/5/2013 at 03:25
They've changed in function. We don't know how far they've taken the change, though. Elemental crystals and elementalism were major parts of the game world and fiction, so to chuck it all out means a major change in many areas. It ain't our City. I wanted to know why elemental crystals were being imported into The City from Blackbrook during the war, and more about how the Hammerites had shrines with each crystal type in their Cathedral, and I wanted to finally see more people other than Garrett using the crystals always found in armouries--not just the fire-arrow shooting archer in Life of the Party--and other visible domestic uses hinted at repeatedly through the older titles. Fire crystals collected from fireplaces and stored nearby, are one example of preparing for future use. How did the ordinary citizen use the crystals themselves, and given time, what is the process by which Garrett converted a crystal to an arrowhead? Where did Garrett learn to use them when the Keeper Training didn't seem to cover that? The Trickster and The Eye worked in conjunction with elementalism, big time, as did the Hand Mages, who were seeking out the rest of the Elemental Talismans after the Keepers made them guardians of the Earth Talisman, recently come to the outskirts of The City from The East. The portal in The Maw where Con's beasts were born was held open by the four elements, and his siege of the Hammer Temple included setting up four shrines to each of the four major elements. The fire and air crystals were lighter than air, neutrally buoyant. Of course, TDS changed that.
Without doing better interviews with ex-LGS than we've ever seen, we'll never know. I never wanted another Thief game, but I have always wanted to know more of the story, what was being referenced, what they meant when they said things, what plans they had if they hadn't been restricted by time and money.
It looks like anyone who hasn't played the vanilla games in years isn't going to get where some of us are coming from, what we fully expect, or could even take for granted if we didn't know better, eh? We don't need T2X as a reminder when TDP/Gold is rife with elementalism. :sly:
In T4, if the fundamental of Garrett using tools and environmental components to change the nature of gamespaces, adjusting light/shadow and loud/quiet conditions, as the most basic part of solving the stealth puzzle, when not confronting the AIs directly, then it's not Thief.
pavlovscat on 1/5/2013 at 03:31
Quote Posted by jtr7
It looks like anyone who hasn't played the vanilla games in years isn't going to get where some of us are coming from, what we fully expect, or could even take for granted if we didn't know better, eh? We don't need T2X as a reminder when TDP/Gold is rife with elementalism. :sly:
Not likely. :p In T2X, the changing functions for the arrows really brought the elemental crystal idea to the forefront for me. I was used to just accepting them as "water, fire, moss, etc.", then, suddenly, I had the ability to change the function of the crystals. I guess it made even more of an impression than I realized because it was the first thing I called to mind. :cool:
jtr7 on 1/5/2013 at 03:39
Over the years, minus T2X, I still don't know why that is. The games emphasize it over and over, and yet many players never noticed it somehow, while being forced to pay attention enough to complete objectives. Too much sensory input at once?
Dia on 1/5/2013 at 12:06
Quote Posted by demagogue
Edit: Sorry I misread it. He is talking about the player's arms. Well, then he's talking about a point they've made in the past, which is that the arrows are not going to be "magic" crystals (like the water arrow was supposed to be in the originals), but mechanical in design. But to be honest, as long as the arrows are doing the same job, I don't think it's much of a distinction that matters to the player anyway. Most players probably don't even remember that the original water & fire arrows were supposed to be held together by magic crystals.
Quote:
"
We have a progression with the weather system, but just like in the real world a little water will not put out a fire. That's why you have special tools which can do that."
Is he talking about 'tools' we use in the real world to put out fires, or 'tool's that will be used in T4 to put out fires - as in, not any type of arrow at all but something entirely different? I really don't think I'd care to see Garrett grab a fire extinguisher to put out the fire in a fireplace. And what's the 'progression with the weather system'? What does that have to do with NuGarrett putting out torches?
Yeah, I was hoping that even if EM had decided to drop the water & fire arrows, they might include arrows that would be the equivalent in T4. I'm beginning to think that may not be the case now. I'd also forgotten about the original water & fire arrows. It's been far too long since I played TDP & TMA.
jtr7 on 1/5/2013 at 12:21
A dry-ice arrow wouldn't put out a torch any more than popping a water balloon over one would. I don't understand their attempts at practical reasoning. And now we have arrows that are even noisier and heavier and more technologically complicated than ever! I can't wait to see how they explain where he gets dry-ice and how it is thawed immediately, but I bet we will still have to not think about it much.
For fun, with dimensional elemental planes, we at least have a game-logic, a D&D roots logic, for where the arrow shaft goes when the crystal shatters, and how it unleashes way more element than a mere container with that volume could. A pocket plane, a blister of solid aether bringing a visible pocket plane of one of the four elements into the world, along with his loot bag of holding, are both viable. The construction of the arrows would create a trade-off of energy when the aetheric shell shatters, whereby the pocket plane releases it's content into the known realm, and a bit of the known realm is lost into the elemental plane, thus we lose the shaft into that closing tiny rift.
Vivian on 1/5/2013 at 18:10
Quote Posted by jtr7
A dry-ice arrow wouldn't put out a torch any more than popping a water balloon over one would.
Why wouldn't a cloud of freezing cold CO2 put out a torch? Also, you can store dry ice in a pressurised container. Still not a good idea to get it hot unless you are damn sure your container is a good pressure vessel, but it's possible.
Hamadriyad on 1/5/2013 at 18:50
Quote Posted by jtr7
I wanted to finally see more people other than Garrett using the crystals always found in armouries--not just the fire-arrow shooting archer in Life of the Party--and other visible domestic uses hinted at repeatedly through the older titles. Fire crystals collected from fireplaces and stored nearby, are one example of preparing for future use. How did the ordinary citizen use the crystals themselves, and given time, what is the process by which Garrett converted a crystal to an arrowhead?
Exactly. I started a thread about that in 2009 in Eidos forums. ((
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=89430&highlight=arrows&page=3)) Different ways to use arrows. I really wanted to see how people can use elemental crystals. But alas! Anyway, I always have hope for FMs.
Renzatic on 2/5/2013 at 03:23
Quote Posted by Vivian
Why wouldn't a cloud of freezing cold CO2 put out a torch? Also, you can store dry ice in a pressurised container. Still not a good idea to get it hot unless you are damn sure your container is a good pressure vessel, but it's possible.
I'd listen to him, people. He studies dinosaurs.
Dia on 2/5/2013 at 03:40
So now we're expected to put out torches with dinosaurs?
I don't even ......
jtr7 on 2/5/2013 at 03:45
Doin' things the Flinstones-way, again! After feeding time, and baby needs burping, point and click that baby burrick at the distant flame, and wait a few seconds for the vapors to cross that distance and choke out that fire.
