Thief (4) Features. What we know is in, what we know is out. - by SubJeff
Renault on 30/4/2013 at 21:41
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
And I'm wondering if you ever asked me for a copy of the Fan Mission piece I wrote for thiefpetition.com when we were campaigning for the release of the Thief 3 editor...?
Just spotted this. If that was directed at me (even though it looks like it wasn't), then the answer is yes. Are you looking for a copy? It didn't seem to fit in with the rest of your post, so it's a little confusing.
SubJeff on 30/4/2013 at 22:19
Yes, I'd love a copy please.
Nuth on 30/4/2013 at 23:22
If Garrett's new eye is the Eye that would explain a lot. I wouldn't expect a Garrett under the influence of the Eye to be much like old Garrett at all.
Dia on 1/5/2013 at 00:40
Okay, there were some parts of the article I wanted to find reassuring, but it mostly made me clench my teeth.
Quote:
'
Expect to be firing silent projectiles rather than bolts of mystic energy'Just what are they referring to anyway? Fire arrows? I never considered those to be 'bolts of mystic energy'. Shooting arrows that were lit on fire was a practice used in warfare a long time before Thief was created, btw. So what are they talking about exactly? And T4 won't have much magic, but it will have the supernatural and mystical. Yet they say T4 '
presents a very low-fantasy world'. Okay. Right.
Quote:
Traditionally, the Thief games were somewhat cumbersome - a way of forcing slower, sneakier play, perhaps, or simply a result of the programming limitations of the time. Now, controlling Garrett is an almost Parkour-like experience, nimbly bouncing off rooftops and deftly avoiding detection. Occasionally, narrative-driven free runs will test your ability to cross the city speedily and unseen. The refined movement undoubtedly works in the game's favour, meaning any challenge is down to the actual difficulty of the game rather than obfuscatory controls.'
Cumbersome'? Maybe the sword fighting was, but afterall, Thief was supposed to be about stealth and Garrett was no master swordsman. And you were
supposed to take your time when playing Thief. '
Parkour-like experience'? Sorry; that doesn't sound appealing to me in the least, especially since in another article it was implied that the parkour-like action would be an automatic thing (triggered when you land on the rooftops?). '
Narrative-driven speed-runs'? Oh good Lord.
*smh*Quote:
The refined movement undoubtedly works in the game's favour, meaning any challenge is down to the actual difficulty of the game rather than obfuscatory controls.Am I the only one who thinks that the controls in the past Thief games were not 'obfuscatory'? Maybe he means they've made the controls in T4 so easy a ten year old could understand them? Did they really even
play any of the Thief games before they started creating T4? Oh wait - this isn't the same team that started working on T4, so perhaps I should ask if
this T4 team has actually played any of the Thief games all the way through.
Quote:
'
An ability simply called The Eye, gives him a heightened focus spotlighting enemies' weak points and objective locations,'
So is that the 'Focus' thing they've been talking about? Instead of trying to spot an enemy's weak points on your own, you push a button and it's done for you?
According to lead level designer, Daniel Windfeld Schmidt, they '
played Dishonored and really enjoyed it'. I wonder just how much of TDP and TMA they actually played.
Sorry again, but I'm getting the overall feeling here that just from the way they refer to the past Thief games (referring to '
obfuscatory controls' and '
Traditionally, the Thief games were somewhat cumbersome') they have nothing but disdain for them. So it makes me wonder why they even chose to resurrect the Thief world. Oh yeah, because they can make it bigger, better, faster, and easier to understand so that '
it challenges you because it's challenging, not because you haven't played it for two weeks and forgot the buttons.' Seriously?
Quote:
Much as Tomb Raider inspired Uncharted, which informed the rebooted and far more sophisticated take on Lara Croft.Perhaps; but at least they didn't call Uncharted 'Tomb Raider' and name the lead character 'Lara'. I think perhaps the T4 devs (at least the ones on the payroll for now) were too heavily influenced by games like Assassin's Creed and Dishonored and perhaps even DX:HR but not influenced enough by the original Thief games. It's beginning to sound as though T4 may very well end up as a thrown-together hodgepodge that will bear only a vague resemblance to the world of Thief as we know it.
Once again, my opinions only.
demagogue on 1/5/2013 at 01:20
Quote Posted by Dia
Just what are they referring to anyway? Fire arrows? I never considered those to be 'bolts of mystic energy'.
I believe what he's referring to are things like the magic flaming bolts that Hammerite or Mechanist or somebody's mages would shoot, or the blue magic electric bolts that those pillars would shoot in the Bonehoard and maybe also the Sword IIRC. There's not that kind of blatant magic I read him as saying.
Edit: Sorry I misread it. He is talking about the player's arms. Well, then he's talking about a point they've made in the past, which is that the arrows are not going to be "magic" crystals (like the water arrow was supposed to be in the originals), but mechanical in design. But to be honest, as long as the arrows are doing the same job, I don't think it's much of a distinction that matters to the player anyway. Most players probably don't even remember that the original water & fire arrows were supposed to be held together by magic crystals.
pavlovscat on 1/5/2013 at 02:20
Quote Posted by demagogue
But to be honest, as long as the arrows are doing the same job, I don't think it's much of a distinction that matters to the player anyway. Most players probably don't even remember that the original water & fire arrows were supposed to be held together by magic crystals.
I can handle something that looks different as long as the function is there. And even I most certainly DO remember that the arrows were elemental crystals. I think anyone who played T2X would not have forgotten that. I need a "stink eye" smilie here. :weird::p:laff:
Quote Posted by Dia
Quote:
Traditionally, the Thief games were somewhat cumbersome - a way of forcing slower, sneakier play, perhaps, or simply a result of the programming limitations of the time. Now, controlling Garrett is an almost Parkour-like experience, nimbly bouncing off rooftops and deftly avoiding detection. Occasionally, narrative-driven free runs will test your ability to cross the city speedily and unseen. The refined movement undoubtedly works in the game's favour, meaning any challenge is down to the actual difficulty of the game rather than obfuscatory controls.
'
Cumbersome'? Maybe the sword fighting was, but afterall, Thief was supposed to be about stealth and Garrett was no master swordsman. And you were
supposed to take your time when playing Thief. '
Parkour-like experience'? Sorry; that doesn't sound appealing to me in the least, especially since in another article it was implied that the parkour-like action would be an automatic thing (triggered when you land on the rooftops?). '
Narrative-driven speed-runs'? Oh good Lord.
*smh*Anyone who describes Thief as cumbersome just doesn't get Thief. The objective wasn't to see how quickly you could breeze through a level, though you could play it that way. I explored every little bit of every level. I guess people expect instant gratification these days. Doesn't anyone have the patience to slow down & enjoy playing for the sake of playing, not just to tick another achievement box? Either modern day gamers all have ADD or just the attention span of a gnat. I've never understood the "I beat the game quicker than anyone else" mentality. It was not unusual for me to play one map for hours. I was reluctant to end my favorites.
Quote:
Am I the only one who thinks that the controls in the past Thief games were not 'obfuscatory'? Maybe he means they've made the controls in T4 so easy a ten year old could understand them? Did they really even
play any of the Thief games before they started creating T4? Oh wait - this isn't the same team that started working on T4, so perhaps I should ask if
this T4 team has actually played any of the Thief games all the way through.
I have had breaks from playing, including my most recent of 3 years. I never had problems remembering the controls. I've had issues with my hands being able to use the controls, but I knew what my hands were supposed to be doing even when I couldn't make them do it. Either I'm a lot smarter than these guys (which I find hard to believe given the amount of brain damage I've sustained), they are not very good at playing games (which I find even harder to believe), or, as I suspect, today's gamers & designers have grown lazy. :wot: Maybe it is a function of the popularity of consoles. If you've grown accustomed to playing or programing for a tiny number of controls such as on a console control, then I guess the big, complex QWERTY keyboard might be scary with all those options. "Geez, what key do I use for this?" Honestly, I can't find any other reason why someone who has supposedly played Thief enough to understand and appreciate it would find Thief either 'cumbersome' or 'obfuscatory'.
demagogue on 1/5/2013 at 02:46
Quote Posted by pavlovscat
I can handle something that looks different as long as the function is there. And even I most certainly DO remember that the arrows were elemental crystals. I think anyone who played T2X would not have forgotten that. I need a "stink eye" smilie here. :weird::p:laff:
Well ok, lol, we should all remember they were elemental crystals since we've been using them forever now... The point was just that it seems IMO they're talking about a cosmetic change, not a change in function. And I even wonder why they put so much emphasis on it since the "magic" part wasn't even contributing so much to the function in this case anyway. (It's a bigger deal in meaning probably no undead, monsters, magic elevators, etc.)
Edit: As for Thief gameplay, I said this in other posts before, but the word I would use is "minimalist". There's not a lot of bells and whistles. You strafe left you go left, and so on. Now get by this guy. I mean there are your tools, but those are directly simulated to do what they do, so even they aren't gimmicky.
I understand it's a thing of preference to what extent people want the controls to be WYSIWYG, very pared down and minimalist vs gamey and more abstracted (push X to let the system parkour bounce around on your behalf). Every game needs a little from both sides, but the balance changes the flavor of the game. I like the balance being on the minimalist side because it puts me in the world more viscerally, which is part of what I want a game to do for me.
pavlovscat on 1/5/2013 at 03:24
It's like car driving a full automatic transmission car vs. a manumatic vs. a standard. I was never a fan of automatic transmission. I prefer to be more intimately involved in directing the proceedings. I prefer standard, but manumatic will do in a pinch. Just as long as I am doing all or most of the deciding, I'll be happy. With a game, it comes down to immersion and how far out of the game the tricksie, one-button maneuvers pull me.
