Specter on 11/6/2013 at 03:11
I kept waiting for spells to erupt from his hands just like something from Elder Scrolls. At this point, I'm glad SR is not the voice actor as I won't feel bad about passing on this game. I play few games anymore and I just don't see enough that I like. I passed on Dishonored and I'll pass on this.
fett on 11/6/2013 at 03:12
Do we know it's going to happen every time? Or only every once in awhile? In Skyrim you could even turn them off. Why do we assume that won't be the case here?
One other thought about the combat system. Let's fact it, in the originals, the sword was mainly used as safety net if you'd accidentally quick-saved in the middle of being caught, heard, etc. Isn't that when most of us used it? In those situations where we thought, "well, shit, I don't want to fight, but my hardsave is too far back to re-load and I botched the quicksave,"? I did. The rest of time, I re-loaded when caught, which is exactly what most Taffers do when playing Thief, Dishonored, DX, Splinter Cell, or even Assassin's Creed. We don't like combat, we don't like getting caught. So we'll re-load to prevent it unless we botched the quicksave. Then you really need it as a safety net.
The other side of the coin for me is: I HATE the hands, and I HATE the fact that SR isn't voicing Garrett. But those are the only two concrete complaints I have until I learn that the HUD is static.
@Specter - you missed out on a hella fun game. Quit being grumpy and play it. You'll be glad you did.
jtr7 on 11/6/2013 at 03:13
If Thief had been built with 3rd-person the way 3rd-person with the cinematic camera, I sure as hell wouldn't have played through one mission. I was turned off by that kind of mechanic before Thief ever existed. Old damned argument, fett. And not true except for people who love their 3rd-person cameras. I'm really disappointed that you've been tossing out one cliche after another, here. It's like a switch was flipped in yer head. That's a shame.
Now you're telling people to game and enjoy it. Next you'll be telling people to just buy and enjoy. Sick, man, sick. Who's being grumpy? You, did you not know that?
Damned consumerist zombification's spreading...
THIS right here is exactly how the forums will be from now on without a massive fascist purging. THIS is what I hate EM for. I'm not a gamer, and Thief was an exception, now T4 is going to divide the community more that TDS ever did. It's already done.
fett on 11/6/2013 at 03:17
But dude - there's hundreds of games I would tell people not to buy. I'm picky. I've bought 2 games this year. Most new games suck. Etc. etc. etc. I'm not saying "just go buy the game," I'm just asking - why are people up in arms about a gameplay mechanic that's not even intended for their playstyle, in a game that seems largely designed to appeal to their playstyle?" It's confusing to me.
Look, I'm not saying I like the 3rd person - I don't. I didn't in DX:HR, but enough of the core DX gameplay was there and the story was there, so I tolerated it. I can't think of a game that doesn't have some aspect I tolerate. I love NOLF but the convos are too long by half. I love Thief but it's really hard to get 100% loot and Garrett looks different on every box and cutscene. It bothers me. But none of those things are deal-breakers. Third person takedowns that I will never see because I don't intend to fight guards is a ridiculous reason to not play the game. It would be like not playing Skyrim because the magic track sucked when I intend on playing a thief or fighter. It's irrelevant to my gameplay style which has been accounted for, so why does it even matter? And note that no one here is bothering to really answer the questions I'm asking. It seems like they just want to be angry no matter what. Just my two cents.
Chade on 11/6/2013 at 03:20
Quote Posted by jtr
Now you're telling people to game and enjoy it. Next you'll be telling people to just buy and enjoy. Sick, man, sick.
No he's not, he's telling people that he believes they will enjoy the game if they do buy it. I don't know when you started up with this sheeple consumer arugment, but I don't believe it's true of anyone at TTLG.
That said, fett, while I wholeheartedly support the rest of your post, I do think you've got point 5 wrong. The (wrong) idea that first person == immersion was older then thief.
Specter on 11/6/2013 at 03:23
Quote Posted by fett
@Specter - you missed out on a hella fun game. Quit being grumpy and play it. You'll be glad you did.
I didn't pass on it out of principle; it just didn't appeal to me. I may give it a go in the future, but I'm indifferent to it. I feel the same about this Thief. No grumpiness intended.
fett on 11/6/2013 at 03:26
Quote Posted by Chade
No he's not, he's telling people that he believes they will enjoy the game if they do buy it. I don't know when you started up with this sheeple consumer arugment, but I don't believe it's true of anyone at TTLG.
That said, fett, while I wholeheartedly support the rest of your post, I do think you've got point 5 wrong. The (wrong) idea that first person == immersion was older then thief.
I'll give you that one. :)
heywood on 11/6/2013 at 03:38
Quote Posted by fett
I don't understand why the people who plan to avoid combat (as in the originals) are worried about a combat system ala Fallout3. If you're not going to play the game that way,
why do you care? Have you never played through the others in a killing rampage, just to see if you can do it? You die a lot - kind of like the dev did in the demo here. How is this different from the originals? It's like you've lost your minds or have never played T1-T3. Are you listening to yourselves? I'm not defending the entire demo but for chrissakes, there's nothing in there that wasn't in the originals or can't likely be turned off.
I
avoid combat when playing Thief, but that doesn't mean I never get myself into combat situations. Ghosting is good, but I'm not OCD about it. I do engage in some blackjacking, and I would rather face occasional combat when detected than reloading a quick save. So to answer your question, I care about combat in Thief 4 because I expect to be doing some of it.
VATS was created for F3 to make combat a stats game. I think it's a bad choice for Thief because a) freezing time in the middle of combat breaks tension and immersion and b) if you take out the stats element then it's pointless to select body parts to attack that way vs. regular aiming.
And in my post, I said I don't like it but it isn't a deal breaker as long as it's optional. And I really mean optional, as in combat is still viable without it. I don't want to feel forced to use it if defeating certain enemies becomes next to impossible without it.
Quote:
One other thought about the combat system. Let's fact it, in the originals, the sword was mainly used as safety net if you'd accidentally quick-saved in the middle of being caught, heard, etc. Isn't that when most of us used it? In those situations where we thought, "well, shit, I don't want to fight, but my hardsave is too far back to re-load and I botched the quicksave,"? I did. The rest of time, I re-loaded when caught, which is exactly what most Taffers do when playing Thief, Dishonored, DX, Splinter Cell, or even Assassin's Creed. We don't like combat, we don't like getting caught. So we'll re-load to prevent it unless we botched the quicksave. Then you really need it as a safety net.
I used quick save a lot the first time I played Thief, but since then I've tried to minimize using it in every game I play because it removes too much tension & suspense.
Random_Taffer on 11/6/2013 at 03:44
Quote Posted by fett
Do we know it's going to happen every time? Or only every once in awhile? In Skyrim you could even turn them off. Why do we assume that won't be the case here?
So far it seems like something that's going to happen every time. I base this on a game reviewer that got to preview it. (I don't actually remember which one it was, but it was one of the popular ones and is linked here in the forums. I'll dig and link it if you don't believe me.)
I remember he said that he was a big fan of the classic Thief games. The EM rep that was watching him play said something like "I bet you're one of those that thinks the third person take downs are rubbish," to which he nodded. I don't recall reading that the EM rep said that it would be optional or not happen every time, but it seems like the mo-cap is something they really want to show off. Hey, if it can be disabled or doesn't happen every time, that's great. But it doesn't appear to be the case so far based on what I've read.
fett on 11/6/2013 at 04:01
Okay, those two posts are helping me understand the worry a bit more. Still, we're a year from release, and like heywood said, the combat thing isn't really a deal-breaker. I don't like it either, but I can ignore it if the other elements are in place, which they seem to be, IMO.
