Thief 4 - E3 Gameplay Discussion

Springheel on 6/7/2013 at 11:05

Here's another bit from this interview: (http://gamestar.ru/english/thief_interview_eng.html)

Quote:

The original games had quite a complex system of calculating Garrett's visibility — it was based on light intensity, player's speed, distance between him and walls, and some others. Are these systems in place in the new Thief as well? And if so, how you are going to communicate to the player exactly how well he is hidden at any moment in time?

DWS: There are a lot of values we're constantly tweaking to both recreate a natural and believable reaction from NPCs as well as making it a game. The player will never be completely safe, even in shadows. Apart from light/shadow we have things like noise, player movement, occlusion, stance, distance, NPC horizontal/vertical viewing angles and so on — all with their own rules and weight.

Does this mean Garrett will NOT be invisible in the shadows (despite what many playtesters have said) or does he mean simply that you can still make noise even in the shadow and be detected that way?

I'm guessing "stance" refers to crouching?

Chade on 6/7/2013 at 11:29

I guess my default hypothesis is that it works in more or less the same way as the originals. I didn't see anything in that quote to challenge that assumption. I mean, presumably the guards see you in shadows if they literally bump into you ...

blueDepths on 9/7/2013 at 09:11

Quote Posted by CloudOJD

(http://youtu.be/8f8qzbfOUjA)

Let me summarize what I see:

- Gaining experience
- Edge of the screen dark fog filter
- Flashy 3rd person takedowns
- Headshots
- Playing aggressively is supported more than it should be
- Lack of any real dark corners and shadows
- Flashy 3rd person takedowns
- Dishonored 2
- Flashy 3rd person takedowns

I disagree strongly with the Dishonored comparison.
The issue with Dishonored was that the protagonist had these supernatural powers that could get him out of any situation.

Abilities like teleportation, possessing bodies and stopping time was completely game-breaking and made stealthy gameplay either unnecessary or too easy, in addition to making the difficulty slider completely useless. And the levels were created under the assumption that the player would use these abilities fairly frequently, thus making old-fashioned sneaking almost impossible at times since the level design and guard routes were made for blinking around.

In Thief 4, "Focus" seems annoying and offending to players of average intelligence and attention span, but not ridiculous like teleporting.
Slow motion archery and visual cues when blocking seem to be a bit overpowered though, but hopefully it won't be of much use against several opponents on high difficulty. The important thing is that stealth gameplay is solid, and the absence of Dishonored-like superpowers makes this fairly promising. The things that could ruin stealth is now limited to dumb AI and too many easily-accessible hiding places (like ledges and rafters).

As for takedowns, you still have to sneak close to your target. In terms of gameplay and challenge, there seems to be no real difference. It's not like aiming the blackjack was challenging.

jdv on 10/7/2013 at 23:47

Quote Posted by blueDepths

I disagree strongly with the Dishonored comparison.
The issue with Dishonored was that the protagonist had these supernatural powers that could get him out of any situation.

I'm going to defend Dishonored and attack this Thief game simultaneously.

Dishonored CAN be completely stealthed with no magic at all, but it CANNOT be Lytha-mode won. You can sneak your way through the game with the occasional kill/knockout and beat the game with low chaos with NO magic. It isn't easy and it sure isn't as fun as the old Thief games, but you can do it.

Dishonored really is more like Deus Ex than Thief, despite the setting. And if you play Dishonored as a "create your personality" count of monte cristo type adventure, it is a LOT of fun. A true role playing game. You can be batman or the joker, one time I played as a james bond type, no magic, or one time I played magic only. Then again no magic + no buying anything in the shops, etc etc.

Thief is different. You can be a shoddy thief or a perfect thief, but you are always going to be a thief. And the best part of the old thief games was the exploration of huge levels, and the feeling of complete weakness against better armed foes. You needed to be fast. Aiming the blackjack, picking up the body, and rushing towards shadows before it was too late. No HUD of importance, no real combat abilities. The thrill came from perfectly executed acrobatics that were completely up to you.

Takedowns and stop-motion fight mode is ninja territory, Dishonored territory, NOT THIEF. But NO game should take you out of control like that. Press A to watch cool video does not a game make. That was the worst part of Deux Ex HR, and the quality of the game increased dramatically when I unbound the takedown button. Unfortunately that pretty much killed the ability to win non-lethally but it was better than cutscening my way to success.

I predict a true flop as far as Thief gameplay is concerned, and will not eagerly anticipate this game nor purchase it without some real evidence that they have somehow preserved the magical gameplay that made Thief so special (and has not ever been recreated on a console compatible game).

So disappointing. First Bioshock Infinite, now this.

MensaLaureate on 11/7/2013 at 00:23

Quote Posted by jdv

I predict a true flop as far as Thief gameplay is concerned, and will not eagerly anticipate this game nor purchase it without some real evidence that they have somehow preserved the magical gameplay that made Thief so special (and has not ever been recreated on a console compatible game).

1)What is this Thief Gameplay you speak of? EM made it quite clear that this game is Thief in name only. EM made it quite clear that everything you ever knew about Thief is no more. Thief 4 will now define "Thief Gameplay."

2)You will not purchase the game based on the teeny tiny fraction of a percentage we saw? Hmmmmmmm. Rushed, misguided, knee jerk reactions are the reactions of the fair weather Thief fan. I have no time for such people...I have wasted too much time already.