Starker on 1/7/2013 at 13:08
Quote Posted by Vae
So the player simply selects which ladder to release, if forced into making a decision (which is doubtful).
Why is it doubtful? Giving the player 2-3 choices without far-reaching consequences is the staple of modern gaming (cf Bioware games).
This is the modern gaming's idea of C&C, basically. You don't give options to the player to make the world more realistic, you gate the player down certain paths to increase replayability.
Quote Posted by Vae
As far as "free-roaming" capability is concerned, there isn't any difference between a mounted ladder and NuRope.
Yes, there is. A ladder is a fixed resource, the new rope arrow is a variable one. Say there are 4 designated rope arrow shoot points in a level and you only bought one rope arrow. This is going to severely limit your freedom of movement versus a fixed ladder that you can use any time.
You seem to think new rope arrows are as good as ladders. I assure you, they are not.
Springheel on 1/7/2013 at 13:34
Quote:
I think it's a positive change. Putting your arms around someone to pickpocket them is a pretty unrealistic invasion of their personal space, even for thief.
I don't think it's unrealistic for a master thief, crouched in a shadow, to reach around and knick a cord on the far side of someone's belt.
OTOH, I DO think it's ridiculous to steal ear-rings right out of people's ears when they don't know you're there, which this game apparently allows. :rolleyes:
However, the specific case aside, do you disagree with the overall point that player freedom is more important?
Quote:
More importantly, it will now require a bit more care to approach a guard at the right angle to pickpocket them, which should be good for the gameplay.
Yes, although this could be achieved without requiring you to control on-screen puppet hands. Simply decrease the frob distance, or have the guard's body block the frob.
MensaLaureate on 1/7/2013 at 15:27
The entire rope arrow debate is silly. "Hotspots" are ultilized because it's easy programming. It's far easier to develop a game to be played the way the devs want you to play it.
"You may only go here, here, here, and there. Nope, we don't want you to go there. That area is just for looking at, not exploring. See our fabulously rendered fire? Marvel at the detail. Don't get too close. Just look."
Programming a world with 100% interactivity like GTA or Skyrim takes alot of hard work. Welcome to the 21st century of video game programming.
Tomi on 1/7/2013 at 16:04
Quote Posted by Springheel
OTOH, I DO think it's ridiculous to steal ear-rings right out of people's ears when they don't know you're there, which this game apparently allows. :rolleyes:
But when you think about Garrett's other abilities that are nearly supernatural, it's not really
that ridiculous anymore. For example Garrett has always been able to become practically invisible even in the tiniest shadows, and the guards won't notice a thing even if they're standing right next to him. That's hardly realistic either and it's a bit silly when you think about it, but then again we're talking about a real master thief here... I'm pretty sure that some outrageously arrogant thief somewhere has managed to steal earrings out of someone's ears in real life too. :p
It'd be nice if pickpocketing actually involved some skill in Thief 4 (and not just one mouse click when you're close enough to your target), but I don't think I'd like to see a complicated pickpocketing mini-game or anything, so I don't know how exactly it would work...
Goldmoon Dawn on 1/7/2013 at 17:02
Quote Posted by Tomi
It'd be nice if pickpocketing actually involved some skill in Thief 4 (and not just one mouse click when you're close enough to your target), but I don't think I'd like to see a complicated pickpocketing mini-game or anything, so I don't know how exactly it would work...
For me, the thrill of pickpocketing in Dark Project had very little to do with the simplistic mechanic itself. Rather, it was the superb atmospheric tension that constantly had me on edge, or at least with heightened awareness. Having such masterful level design was the thrill for me. Being so absorbed in the aesthetics while trying to sneak up on your target made for busted moments where I and many others would either jump from the computer chair and/or spit liquids from the mouth. That, is that elusive magical quality that is missed in so many other games, both then and now...
I wouldnt get that same thrill if I was dumped into a somewhat crowded "city" where one out of every three passerby has some blingy jewelry to "pickpocket". I wasnt thrilled with it in Deadly and probably wouldnt be in the next one.
Considering what LGS defined with their original 1st person pickpocket concept, I would say that the only way one could even begin to think about "improving" on it is to first create a masterful mission design that accommodates for it. There should be justifiable tension created and minimal opportunity for each pickpocket. If by some miracle they were able to craft all of this correctly, then they could hone in on the pickpocket mechanic. It doesnt seem clear yet whether or not the new missions are built for free exploration or carefully guided gameplay. It just doesnt seem like they are spending their precious development resources tuning into the finer points of elite gameplay, like say the new Might Magic team is.
Either way, Im sure that there will be any number of rabid taffer, who will find himself tearing through T4, scouring the desecrated and defiled landscape, digging through any and all nooks or crannies, desperately finding each and every way to break this damn game.... I vow this unto thee...
:ebil:
Tomi on 1/7/2013 at 18:32
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
I wouldnt get that same thrill if I was dumped into a somewhat crowded "city" where one out of every three passerby has some blingy jewelry to "pickpocket". I wasnt thrilled with it in Deadly and probably wouldnt be in the next one.
Considering what LGS defined with their original 1st person pickpocket concept, I would say that the only way one could even begin to think about "improving" on it is to first create a masterful mission design that accommodates for it. There should be justifiable tension created and minimal opportunity for each pickpocket. If by some miracle they were able to craft all of this correctly, then they could hone in on the pickpocket mechanic.
Lo and behold! Thou dost speak some sense for once, milord! But dost thou not agree that there should be some sense of danger in pickpocketing? Now, if thou dost stand in a "safe spot", thy invisible hand can reach out from the shadows, and it is practically impossible for thee to get caught.
Having (the opportunity) to pickpocket every third passerby doth indeed make the pickpocketing a bit tedious and pointless, but methinks it all also depends on how dost thou see Garrett as a person. Doth he follow the Virtues? Couldst thou imagine Garrett as a selfish thieving bastard who would mug a poor elderly lady just to steal her purse? Is that virtuous?! Or art thou like me, and see Garrett as a character with higher morals, someone who would only steal from the rich or the "evil"?
Ho hum... Looks like rain...
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* Name * Job * Bye * Murder * Garrett
* higher morals * "safe spot" * Fellowship
(ok, I'm already exhausted of playing The Game with you... I hope you don't mind if I call you Chuckles from now on. :p)
MensaLaureate on 1/7/2013 at 18:44
So sorry if I don't fit into the little clique. So Sorry if my opinions represent the masses and not the vocal minority.
I can't wait for Thief because I've played every fan mission that is worth playing (and a bunch not worth playing). I've played TDP, TMA, and TDS about once a year since they came out. And yes, I bought each one within a week of it coming out. The franchise has run its course. The story is exhausted. I applaud Eidos Montreal for breathing new life into the franchise. I applaud them for owning it.
As I said, the PC market has fleeced me long enough. I'm done paying $800 for a run-of-the-mill PC, only to find out it is a relic in 1 years' time. I got 8 years of problem free use of my Xbox360 for half the price...with no upgrades. And you all should know, next gens will rival even the highest end PC out there. So, as I sit in my easy chair, playing Thief on my 55" LED TV enjoying surround sound and a comfortable controller, I'll let you all sit hunched over at your desk, squinting at your 20" Dell monitor,listening to the tinny sounds of your side mounted speakers, and struggle with the W,A,S,D keys and wonky mouse scrolling.
I can't wait.
Renzatic on 1/7/2013 at 18:50
Quote Posted by Shinrazero
Since EM has decided mocap is more important than the defining voice work of Stephen Russell, do you think the exchange of SR for fancy hand animations is worth it?
Depends on how good the new guy is, I guess. It's hard to judge the quality of his work based on one pretty good trailer, and one bad one.
Though really, EM's decision to nix Stephen Russell still mystifies me. They could've easily done both.
Goldmoon Dawn on 1/7/2013 at 19:07
Quote Posted by Tomi
Ho hum... Looks like rain...
(ok, I'm already exhausted of playing The Game with you... I hope you don't mind if I call you Chuckles from now on. :p)
:ebil: give me true rope arrow or give me death :ebil:
I was always more of a MM fan than Ultima/et al, yet the respect remains. And for the record, I was always a bard. As compassion is clearly my strongest virtue. Look it up. Its all there. ;) :p
Shinrazero on 1/7/2013 at 20:42
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Depends on how good the new guy is, I guess. It's hard to judge the quality of his work based on one pretty good trailer, and one bad one.
Though really, EM's decision to nix Stephen Russell still mystifies me. They could've easily done both.
That's a reasonable answer. The new guy has some big shoes to fill yet I still think SR's exclusion is removing a significant element to Thief. There's no reason for them to ditch SR
because of mocap. :mad: Is there any word on Dan Thron being involved?
