Renzatic on 1/7/2013 at 01:09
I'll admit the floating zombie hands you see in front of your face while crouched are a little too much (they're stupid dumb), but overall, I think the contextual animations add more to the experience than they take away from it.
edit: HA HAAAAA! NEW PAGE, WHOOOORRREEESSS! EAT IT! :mad:
Chade on 1/7/2013 at 01:39
The part that most interests me is hearing from a player at E3 that, when they tried to pickpocket some purse through a guard (as per the earlier games), Garrett put his arm out to take the purse, bumped into the guard, and got caught.
I would like to know how fine grained that mechanic is. I.e., if you try to pick a purse from the side, and the guard is walking and swinging his arms, could you hit his arm with your arm when you go to grab the purse?
It's not going to make a huge difference to the game, but it does eliminate some of the things you could do in earlier games that didn't really make sense.
Springheel on 1/7/2013 at 03:01
Quote:
EDIT: I'm much more concerned about reports that using a door (or maybe it was lock-picking, don't remember) in the E3 demo could reposition Garrett. I hope they fix that.
I heard a report about someone sliding into position when they opened a door.
Quote:
The part that most interests me is hearing from a player at E3 that, when they tried to pickpocket some purse through a guard (as per the earlier games), Garrett put his arm out to take the purse, bumped into the guard, and got caught.
And that's the problem with body awareness. In real life, you could do something novel like reach your arm
around the guard. But there's no way for a game to portray all the ways you could move your arms and hands in real life.
Without body awareness, you can use your imagination to establish how you reached the purse. Yes, frobbing in Thief sometimes let you get away with things you probably couldn't do in reality, but if there are going to unrealistic elements, they should be ones that favour player freedom, not limit it.
Chade on 1/7/2013 at 03:09
I think it's a positive change. Putting your arms around someone to pickpocket them is a pretty unrealistic invasion of their personal space, even for thief.
More importantly, it will now require a bit more care to approach a guard at the right angle to pickpocket them, which should be good for the gameplay.
Shinrazero on 1/7/2013 at 03:26
Quote Posted by Renzatic
The reason I asked is because the whole issue strikes me as something people are bitching about just to bitch. Like "oh god, I can see my hand, and the door opens after a 1.5 second animation. This is horrible, and ruins the realistic feel of blah blah blah", completely ignoring the fact you can open up a door in Thief 1 & 2 smoothly from a good 5 feet away.
There are tons of legitimate things to complain about with Thief 4. It's the nitpicking bitching that gets on my nerves. I consider at least 3/4ths of the hand complaints to be just that.
No froth, no bitching, just discussing the video. You've been on these forums long enough to know that this is the MO of TTLG or any other fan community, dissect and discuss. To trivialize the fact that Garrett's hands are always in view is not especially fair as it is a significant addition to the series which many find to be distracting.
That being said, I have a question for you.
Since EM has decided mocap is more important than the defining voice work of Stephen Russell, do you think the exchange of SR for fancy hand animations is worth it?
Goldmoon Dawn on 1/7/2013 at 06:19
Quote Posted by Chade
For me personally, the rope arrow restrictions may be the most dissappointing news I've heard about the actual gameplay so far.
I agree with you and the reasons why are simple.
For me, having planned locations for rope arrows takes away their functional distinction. What is the functional difference between ladders, stairs and rope arrows at this point. The only functional distiction between these three methods of upward travel is cosmetic. To say "we are bringing rope arrows back" is insultingly misleading.
Which is the other reason this news is disappointing. This tragic news indicates that one of our main classic tools of free form exploration has been reduced to ash. After the shock of this subsides, the bigger picture becomes a little clearer. Serious doubt can easily be placed at this point on the missions being designed with creative exploration at their forefront.
Quote Posted by Vae
...and so we are given the freedom-robbing NuRope...which will give us the free-roaming capability of a mounted ladder.
Absolutely agreed. There is really no difference anymore, between rope arrows, ladders, and even stairs in a way.
Quote Posted by SneakyJack
I think people have nostalgia poisoning when they are trying to remember these things. Most Thief missions only had a few specific areas you could sink rope arrows into and the only difference was that they were a wood texture instead of being a highlighted glowing area.
These statements are horribly inaccurate, considering the myriad ways and places rope arrows could be used creatively in Thief I and even more so in Thief II. But then again, LGS masterfully crafted the game/engine with their signature physics simulation model. This new team dont know jack about making replayable Thief games. They really think that their stupid hack job of a story is more poignant and eloquent than the elite free form gameplay that LGS established with The Dark Project.
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
There were plenty of occasions where you could rope up that wasn't obviously following a path to progress, but perhaps a player could improvise an escape/hiding place.
Quote Posted by demagogue
I'm sure LGS was discriminating about where you could rope arrow. It wasn't just anywhere by design and probably a bit restrictive if you go back and check; they'd have to be.
Not quite. They openly designed the game to give the player as much freedom as they could possibly perceive, in which to go forth and explore this superb simulation of theirs. Rope arrows were one of those main drives. Free form exploration wasnt just some happy accident. It is well documented what they were doing with the development of their engine. And again, this is one of the many reasons we continue to celebrate the excellence of LGS.
SubJeff on 1/7/2013 at 06:34
Quote Posted by Vae
I am a creative professional, as well...and I will admit from what I've witnessed, that your speaking skills are far greater than your writing skills.
The only thing you've explained is your inability to grasp certain concepts, and your need to project your hate onto those who have none.
Ha ha. You telling Viv his writing skills are bad? Get out, try hard.
As a "creative professional" you should know about this typeface convention then.
Hey Goldmoon!
For once (and believe me I'm as amazed as you'll be) I totally agree with you.
Restricting rope arrows like this is bad and it does speak volumes about the level design,
And fwiw I don't like the door opening animations at all. You may have been able to open a door from far away in the original but opening felt natural, immersive. This new animation business will remind me that I'm in a game. I hope you can turn the animation off, though I doubt it.
Starker on 1/7/2013 at 10:56
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
What is the functional difference between ladders, stairs and rope arrows at this point.
The functional difference between ladders and new rope arrows, the latter seeming to be non-retrievable, is that new rope arrows can theoretically force you to make a choice between two places to climb up. Or, if they are really bold, maybe even 3-4. New rope arrows are basically portable one-use ladders, whereas actual ladders are static and fixed.
There is no functional difference between ladders and stairs.
Vae on 1/7/2013 at 12:19
Quote Posted by Starker
The functional difference between ladders and new rope arrows, the latter seeming to be non-retrievable, is that new rope arrows can theoretically force you to make a choice between two places to climb up. Or, if they are really bold, maybe even 3-4. New rope arrows are basically portable one-use ladders, whereas actual ladders are static and fixed.
More accurately, I would say that NuRope is equivalent to a "Fire Escape Ladder"...as with a portable ladder, one would have some flexability as where to place it, whereas the "Fire Escape Ladder" is in fixed locations, just as the NuRope hotspots are. So the player simply selects which ladder to release, if forced into making a decision (which is doubtful).
As far as "free-roaming" capability is concerned, there isn't any difference between a mounted ladder and NuRope.
Quote:
As a "creative professional" you should know about this typeface convention then.
I see you're still confused by an inconsequential premise.
For you see, with the title of this intellectual property, both "THIEF" and "Thief" are
appropriate expressions, and can be used interchangeably within the context of various media. There isn't any exclusive use of the all-caps "THIEF", and therefore your argument turns to ash.
SubJeff on 1/7/2013 at 12:58
They certainly can be used in various ways, I agree with you.
Using the full capitalised version in a sentence is still odd and you are odd to do so. Don't believe me? Ask around, you'll have very few backers.
