fett on 12/6/2013 at 17:53
You still have to admit that while TDS failed miserably at many things, it was making an attempt to bring realism and push the game into the modern era at the time. Thief will never look as cartoonish as it did in the late 90's because shadows and light simply don't work that way anymore in game engines. I expected this to look A LOT like TDS, just hoping the gameplay's better.
bukary on 12/6/2013 at 17:58
I don't think we'll see more of the gameplay soon. So... my summarization.
I really like:
Great 1st person knockout animation.
Mantling.
Leaning.
Body awareness. (Although some animations could be better).
Rope arrows.
Dogs.
Crowbar.
Architecture.
Flying camera intro.
Guards with crossbows.
"Stealthy" objectives.
"Thoughtful" placement of loot (coins in the nest). :)
I am uncertain about the quality/implementation of:
The story (poor vs. rich, Baron).
Orizari's voice.
The writing and dialogues.
Lockpicking (seeing inside of the lock only in focus mode?).
Level design (freedom and open areas).
Swoop.
Omnipresent fog.
The elements that should be changed/improved/completely removed:
Focus mode ("seeing" through walls).
Blackjack combat.
XP points.
3rd person takedowns.
Ugly HUD and notifications.
Loot and objects glint.
Possible QTE.
The way Garrett holds his bow - it's completely unrealistic.
Garrett's "radar".
Thrown objects trails.
And my biggest complaints (almost game breakers):
AI (movement, transitions between different states of awareness, face animations etc.).
Specific "usable" areas (for mantling etc.) - I really do hope that it's not the case.
Visible hands while crouching.
Dark vignette in "sneak mode".
No manual game saving, just ckeckpoints - I also hope that it's not the case.
And I do hope that there's swimmable water in the game.
Renzatic on 12/6/2013 at 18:02
Quote Posted by Springheel
Ehhh...really Ren? I would say turn them off and it looks a lot closer to TDS. The map we saw has the exact same aesthetic as TDS--blue everywhere, bright white lights, little to no steampunk. Then there's the atomic blue froblight, the blue motion trails (at least for thrown objects, didn't notice arrows), the loot glint (how can you blame them for bringing that back when it recieved such high praise before?)
Even the good parts of this game seem FAR more influenced by TDS than the originals.
Aesthetically, yeah. The abundance of blue shading, lighting, frobbing, highlights, and whatnot does make it look a lot more like TDS than the first two. But I don't think that's a bad thing exactly. For all its faults, it did have a nice look and style going for it (nuclear frob aside, which isn't nearly as bad in T4).
But what about the movement? The gameplay? The way Garrett moves about isn't nearly as clumsy as it was in TDS. If anything, it reminds me more of a slightly sped up TDM with a bunch of extra animations thrown in, which is itself (as you're well aware) a smoother implementation of the control and movement schemes in Thief 1 & 2.
adonys on 12/6/2013 at 18:07
well, I love Thief games, and I was hugely disappointed by what I've saw until now at E3 presented as Thief reboot.
does this count?!!
the main problems are that they've managed to screw core gameplay mechanics, and that's not the worse thing about it. they've simply missed with entire game systems without which this game is not, can not be and will never be a true thief game.
- sound system -> totally messed up
- stealth/lightning system -> mostly messed up
- AI system -> aaa.. which AI again?!!
- SciFi GUI system in a medieval/steampunk setup
you guys wondered why there was a lightning gem AND the dark vignette? if not, let me take a (not so) wild guess: the lighting gem can probably be disabled and they needed another GUI element present all the time to let show you your "stealth" status. which leads to the conclusion that using the normal visual clues was not enough to let you know this status. a clear indicator of the fact that even they are acknowledging the broken stealth/lighting system presented into the game so far to us..
other observations:
- everything's waay too blueish
- there's nothing wrong with the hands. it's the normal posture of the human body seeking equilibrium while moving into a crouched position
- I really hate those stupid hats!
fett on 12/6/2013 at 18:20
Okay, wow Starker - that video nearly renders my arguments invalid. I agree 100% with every single thing he said. Great GREAT observations and dead on in terms of what the industry needs to do.
On the flip side, I enjoy stealth games, Thief, DX, Dishonored, NOLF, Assassin's Creed (mostly), Skyrim (Thief's track), etc. Whether this new Thief reminds me much of the originals (and what I've seen does) or not, I'm still going to welcome it with open arms because of its genre. Ideally, it will look and play like an LGS title, lining up with what The Escapist said in that vid, but if it doesn't, I'm willing to give it a shot anyway 1) because it's the new Thief like it or not and 2) it's a stealth game.
I hope we all realize this conversation is moot until some more reliable people get their hands on it 6 months from now. :)
Seriously - everyone should see that video. We could have written the monologue for it collectively.
wafflepotatopancake on 12/6/2013 at 18:31
I just finished watching that video. It certainly makes me think, that's for sure. I never thought about the impact of focus groups before on gaming, and he's absolutely right, the gaming industry really is trying to shove everything that people say they like into one game, but no one is ever going to find the perfect gaming formula that appeals to everyone, because everyone likes different things!
I like stealth games, and by that I mean stealth without combat stealth games. I like to overcome things using my mind, and not my muscles to get through a game. I'm not a fan of combat in my stealth games (for me it feels like eating cereal with a combination of milk and orange juice, ugh!). I probably like them some much because I have almost endless patience and am quite happy to repeat trying to grab the same piece of loot over, and over, and over until I get it perfect and snag it without even a whisper of knowing I was there. My brother made fun of me the other day for playing Thief, he said "You're playing through that game AGAIN?". Yeah I'm playing through it again, you damn well know I've played through it a hundred times and I still love every second of it. Thief was one of those perfect games for ME, so I love to keep playing it.
That isn't to say though I don't like combat. I like my combat in another genre that I love, RPGs. I love the Elder Scrolls series to bits, and while I usually play as a sneaky type in light armor with a bow, I also love to play using dual wielded swords (not daggers!) and dance around in combat getting in strikes at arms length and then retreating to miss being killed (the mods I had in Skyrim made anything hitting me probably a 75% chance of a 1 hit K.O.). Could I sneak past them? Sure, I probably could, but I'm not playing a stealth based game, I'm playing an RPG and I want to have fun, and I find getting into combat in that genre fun. I also like the old school side scrollers (Castlevania, I'm looking at you) and even some of the older RPGs back on the NES (I've played through Crystalis about a thousand times too, and I still love it. It was the first RPG wee little me played ever!).
I don't like FPS games. Absolutely hate them. So all these FPS games people are playing now a days I haven't touched with a 10 foot pole. I don't like strategy games either, or games like Starcraft. Not my thing.
I recently (like, 3 days ago) started playing through and finished Amnesia TTD. Oh my god, I was so scared the entire time and hated every second of it, but I still managed to get past my terror and finish the game and found I actually was really happy to have played it. Amusingly it felt like a stealth game to me, and I ended the game with about 70 tinderboxes and over 15 lamp oils left because I see the light as the enemy from all my thieving, so I only used the most bare bones necessary light sources to keep from going insane to get through the game. I can't wait until the next Amnesia title comes out this summer so I can continue to cry like a little girl every step of the way but still have fun playing it.
Now that I have seen the other side of the coin though, I wish more publishers would target games to specific niches. You're never going to please everyone in one game, so why not make a bunch of diverse titles to try and grab all audiences, and make them well so they stay captivated and fall in love with what you make. When you get a following like that behind our game, those are the people that when you say you're making a new one in that genre scream "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY" and can't wait to get their hands on it. With a game that targets everyone, sure it may get a following, but for people like me who might have tried it, when you make another may or may not say "Eh, I think I'll pass on this one" because they didn't like the mish mash that it was.
I nearly died when a new Thief was announced, and at that moment I was sure that they would have gotten my money as fast as I could throw it at them. Now after seeing it in action and how they've tried to add so much to a game that didn't really need it, I'm on the fence. Its Thief, but its not, you know? I've seen some people say they didn't like Thief 3 which a lot of people were unsure about but I actually enjoyed it, though at times it felt clunky and stealth challenged, and I still enjoy it.
I wish I could try Thief 4 before I buy, but right now I'm still unsure if this will be a release day title for me, or a wait until it hits the bargain bin title for me. There's things I like, and there's things I don't like, but I'm trying really hard to stay optimistic. I just wish gaming companies would narrow their target audience scope and focus on doing one thing, and doing it right so it builds a following, instead of mass market appeal with watered down homogenized everything. Those kinds of games are just so dull and boring and all the same...
Darkness_Falls on 12/6/2013 at 18:35
Quote Posted by Random_Taffer
(
http://Youtu.be/HZj1IDGhK0Y) http://Youtu.be/HZj1lDGhK0Y
At around 3 minutes, it shows a KO that's not in third person!
:)
Too bad you have to "HOLD (R1) TO TAKEDOWN" in order to trigger the action. Yeah, that seems better than just having to hit a non-contextual action button to swing your blackjack and take him out.
I wish every shooter, like Battlefield, Call of Duty, etc. would be like this. Yes, make it so you can't shoot your gun until the enemy is positioned exactly in the center of your screen, where it would then say, "HOLD (R1) TO SHOOT". Awesomeness.
nickie on 12/6/2013 at 18:46
Thanks for the link - is that their time?
Edit. Yes of course it is. And they're about 8 hours behind? 12? Anyone know? From the UK that is - I can never remember.
Shocked_ on 12/6/2013 at 18:49
Skipped here from page five. Focus testing has surely been discussed? Here is my plan: lets put together some cash and hire the people who usually do focus tests. Lets have this experiment in say Montreal. Now, in my opinion Thief II is the, quoting Yahtzee "peak of the series where sneaking was the sneakiest and sprawling levels were the sprawliest". We sit some average doods from various age groups in front of a display and let them play some Thief II. That way we'll see if today people really don't like simple sneaking anymore. If not we'll just go back playing the classics and FU the world (at least I will) but if they do like the simple yet highly addictive sneaking where there is a difference if you walk on carpet or marble floor, we shove the results down Eidos Montreals throats and let they make their own conclusions. Anyone with me?
Now if someone just wrote some piece of code to enable a friggin Xbox controller to work with Thief II... otherwise this experiment is failure before it begins :P
