Renault on 16/11/2016 at 20:47

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Saw this posted over on the Dark Mod forums, makes for a good read. It appears to be some kind of a proposal for Thief 4 by someone at Ion Storm back in March 2004 (two months before Deadly Shadows was released). I'm not 100% clear on the back story, but it looks like this would have been the modern day setting Thief game that's been talked about over the years. Check it out here:

(http://www.southquarter.com/thief/Thief 4 Submission Document - Joe Martin.doc)

(It will probably ask for a password, just choose the "Read Only" option).

Elentari on 17/11/2016 at 06:21

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Ugh. Got to say it doesn't even sound remotely like what Thief is/was supposed to be. Calling it a 'slow-paced' and 'passive' game that has to be 'updated' is just insulting. It would be yet another game I'd be skipping (Seriously, aren't there enough mindless fighting games out there already?).

Glad it was not done. Doesn't sound like the person/people suggesting it was even a fan of the game to start with. Not if they totally wanted to redo it so much.

zoog on 17/11/2016 at 14:45

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I wouldn't be so sure, of course "it's insulting" but thi4f was "old style" and sucks while SS/SS2 were action games and they're actual. So imho personnel(LGS people) is the key.

R Soul on 19/11/2016 at 23:39

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The old style isn't the only thing that most of us like about the original games. We also like the factions, the atmosphere, Garrett's personality, the gameplay, the plot etc. For each of us it's a little different, but it can be summed up as a list of things that were in the first and/or second games. We may accept a new game having new things, but the developers shouldn't push their luck, even if there are ex-LGS people there.

Chade on 20/11/2016 at 13:11

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What gets me about the doc is the lack of imagination displayed by the author.



So I think that's kinda reasonable, actually. And I also think moving to a modern world gives you a lot of opportunities for changing that while staying true to the original factions, gameplay, etc. Personally I'd be very excited about seeing a modern thief in the hands of somebody that I thought could do a good job of it.

But this way of looking at the game (ok, so here's thief, which doesn't resonate quite as much as we'd like with mainstream gamers, and here's these other games which do, so the way we'll "fix thief" is to make it 70% like thief and 30% like these other games and hope that's enough to bring mainstream gamers on board without alienating our fans) is never going to cut it. Ok, the dagger of ways sounds potentially interesting, but 10:1 says it would ultimately end up feeling a bit tacked on: a hook for the sake of having a hook. I can't say it doesn't address any systematic issues, because it sounds like that is the idea (always give the player something to do, penalize murder) ... it just feels like the primary focus is on being cool, not fixing systematic issues.

I think the thing which is potentially the most exciting about doing a modern thief would be the possibility of putting a strategic layer on top of the game, having guards organize sweeps and so forth over radio, having Garrett listening in to that and adjusting his strategy to suit. I think that could also increase the appeal of the game, because the ebb and flow of the guards adds some structure to that high level question of "ok, where should I go now?". You wouldn't have to slavishly follow that ebb and flow if you wanted to explore, but it could be the path of least resistance. You could also use the radio to give Garrett a better idea of what the guards are thinking and planning to do next while searching for him. Instead of just picking the one dark corner and waiting for a few minutes, you would have to anticipate where the guards will be looking next and move to avoid detection.

I wouldn't be surprised if guards with guns are a more natural fit for thief gameplay than guards with swords. Guards with guns would stop and start shooting some distance away from Garrett, giving him more of a chance to get out of sight. But the guard has radio and torches and so forth, so I would hope that when spotted it is easier to get away, but then the resulting hunt is more interesting.

And from a world building pov I reckon you could start off with recognisable real-world factions, but then as you get deeper into the plot and the lore you start to see that these are run by the same old factions, and that the supernatural element is still there in out-of-the-way places.

But this document didn't go into any depth as to how a modern thief could address the specific problems that they thought thief had: it was basically just "let's take a bit of thief and a bit of splinter cell, and a cool new power for bonus points, and combine them ... tada! problem solved!".