Thief 3 Gold - Public beta test (TDS Spoilers ahead, obviously!)

Beleg Cúthalion on 18/8/2014 at 05:11

Good news on two ends: Lord Ember's navmesh could be fixed, he's now patrolling out of his chamber again and chastising his guards. Their snide replies still play when he is facing them, so maybe I can do a little fine tuning and make him go away quicker.

I've also changed the torch smoke emitter script so it deletes the emitter eight seconds after a fire has been extinguished. This avoids coming back and see the smoke hours later. However, I cannot make the emitter play even when Garrett looks away unfortunately, so if you look away within these eight seconds and look back again, you might see the emitter suddenly vanish in mid-"animation". The again, it works without changing GameSys, I "only" have to re-build every single map with torches and fireplaces. :p

AntiMatter_16 on 19/8/2014 at 02:33

Thoughts on The Blue Heron Inn
There seems to be (http://i.imgur.com/dgnR9QO.png) a seam of some sort at the start of the mission.

You can kill the first guard after completing the first training. However, he's immortal. 5 seconds after killing or blackjacking him, he gets back up. This is probably because he's used again in the second training, and after completing the 2nd training, he's immortal and oblivious to you again. Perhaps using two separate guards would be best here. Ion probably just used one to save xbox memory. If the level were ever turned into a "proper" level with different difficulty settings and no training, you'd want to use 2 guards anyhow.

I've always wanted to be able to put out (http://i.imgur.com/atXsFGQ.png) this torch behind the bars in the basement of the Inn, near the water arrow training.
Also (http://i.imgur.com/Dv9XdoB.png) this fireplace, down the basement hall. In DromEd, you can specify a "pore size" to allow objects smaller than the pore size to pass right through the object with the "pore size" property. Is there anything like that for Thief3?

You cannot frob out (http://i.imgur.com/dBUVoli.png) these candles at the front desk. Sad day. Er, night.

After completing the Noisemaker training, (http://i.imgur.com/hdJDYYs.png) this guy becomes immortal. He might be the guard teleported to the kitchen later.

Speaking of the kitchen, the (http://i.imgur.com/RXIH1Fb.png) cooking fires cannot be extinguished.

Rutherford Castle
There is a (http://i.imgur.com/CPRVf2o.png) floating sword in the armory.

There's some (http://i.imgur.com/cMJ6fJ5.png) terrain issues at the top of the stairs that lead down to the vault.

snobel on 19/8/2014 at 08:46

In case anyone's up for a bit of additional testing, here's a (https://copy.com/inghqFKoQ03YdKsg) T3G FM Special preview of the SneakyTweaker tool. Unpack and run from anywhere. Feedback is welcome of course, but best posted in the (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138607) SU thread unless it's T3G specific.

The current status is:

* The T3G options work. As we've discovered, the enforcer option can be changed on the fly (as long as you reload after changing it). When changed to Standard from one of the other settings it takes a few seconds before they become visible
* The Sneaky Upgrade options are in place, except for the gamepad stuff. If the plaintext saves option has been enabled when clicking Apply or OK it will look for existing old-style saves and offer to convert them. Note that not all options will be exposed through the GUI
* The Minimalist and John P sections are all empty GUI - but you can see what settings will be available
* There's not much error checking in place, so don't try to deliberately break it...

The top level pages have descriptions adapted from the original readme files (or original post for the MP). The one for the SU will probably be replaced with some instructions on how to use the mods.

Next up is Minimalist. When that's in place it should be easy, if a bit tedious, to get John P in place as well.

[CENTER]

Inline Image:

https://copy.com/tAKoQXnyrEHsX4g3[/CENTER]

AntiMatter_16 on 20/8/2014 at 03:13

There's some... odd lighting behavior in Garrett's building. Observe:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okH4_Pwofho)

Beleg Cúthalion on 20/8/2014 at 05:54

I haven't tackled the Inn mission yet, but I'll try not to forget your reports, AntiMatter. Thanks for the other ones, I fixed the two in the Castle mission. The odd lighting behaviour is caused by zone portals which divide the level geometry into sections so that only the ones visible are rendered. So the light goes out as soon as the portal closing off the staircase gets out of view, despite the fact that the light from there (sometimes even larger objects) should still be visible. I have deleted the one portal now because it doesn't bring any noticeable performance increase in this small map but it might not always be possible. Still, if you find other noteworthy examples, I can always try to move the portals or do other stuff to make the effect less obvious.

Muzman on 20/8/2014 at 10:51

Excellent work as always

My version is a couple of weeks old and I don't know if there's been any updates. I've only found one invisible Enforcer so far and that's the one in Garrett's apartment. But I don't recall if I turned that option on or not.

Either way, extremely cool.

Did you have to concoct that feature out of the Keeper 'Spell Caster' power or is that something that was in the game but they never turned on?
They make a whole lot more sense like this, in any case.

Beleg Cúthalion on 20/8/2014 at 14:02

The invisibility feature is already in the game, Keeper elders can give their allies a boost with that (few typical Thief players experience this I assume, but you can check the FM "Creature Clash 3" and throw some Keepers into the arena). It was a compromise since I cannot make the enforcers avoid lit areas (well, one could do it in an FM with a careful artificial setup...I have plans...) while normal NPCs still act and patrol normally. Having them visible but not reacting to civilians (and vice-versa) would be quite a stretch, that's why the two features are combined. Most of these tweaks were discussed here in a thread some years ago, the telepathy thing for instance wasn't my idea. Glad you like it!

AntiMatter_16 on 20/8/2014 at 20:51

Is it possible to allow Garrett to blackjack (http://i.imgur.com/dUxu9gu.png) people that are sitting down?

Some notes on the city:

Southquarter:
In the house near the well, (http://i.imgur.com/3WGOuTr.png) this candle's light seems to penetrate the fireplace mantel.
The (http://i.imgur.com/T9lWggS.png) grate of the blackmail dropoff point is oddly silent when moved. It also overlaps the wood frame around it.
Another minor (http://i.imgur.com/ECCLnLh.png) light oddity, at the entrance to Stonemarket.
There's an (http://i.imgur.com/cQtQJn3.png) iron fence next to Garrett's building that's visible through a building from a distance.
The (http://i.imgur.com/urFrtXD.png) entrance to Heartless Perry's shop has some oddities.
Oddities in the (http://i.imgur.com/dAkwQx8.png) ceiling of the entrance to Back Alley. You might consider removing the wall in the tunnel, since it's probably only there so fewer polys can be shown on the screen at one time.
The edge of this (http://i.imgur.com/fd8iMSM.png) wood plank in front of Pavelock prison flickers.
Torch casts light through wall by (http://i.imgur.com/e6w2I4d.png) small shop.
This (http://i.imgur.com/PqtmSDy.png) plank under the deck across from Garret's building is a little short.

StoneMarket Plaza:
In the tavern behind the bar, when you steal the fine wine, (http://i.imgur.com/KJt82eV.png) this bottle adjacent to it always falls.
In Mr. Brent's apartment, his (http://i.imgur.com/gY06U7H.png) candles retain their coronas when frobbed out. They also make no extinguish sound.
Outside Terces Courtyard, there is a (http://i.imgur.com/krrqnJA.png) garden missing its (http://i.imgur.com/SNTeQnh.png) dirt.
The (http://i.imgur.com/FYZFGYd.png) level transition effects bleed through the wall at the entrance to the keeper compound before its revealed to you.
At the top of staircase by Terces Courtyard, the (http://i.imgur.com/Py3EvpM.png) light from a torch bleeds through the wall.

Stonemarket Proper:
(http://i.imgur.com/6x50D7M.png) This ledge above the entrance to this area, cannot be traversed. You get stuck on the little pillar there.
In Cothron's Armory, his (http://i.imgur.com/ItAq6iD.png) three candles (http://i.imgur.com/BqhyIY9.png) retain their (http://i.imgur.com/mNBCchD.png) corona's when frobbed out, and don't make the extinguished sound when you do so.
The (http://i.imgur.com/1MViKMg.png) Back door to Crowley's shop sinks into the wall when open.

Also, Stonemarket Plaza, and Stonemarket Proper are BEGGING to be merged.

Muzman on 21/8/2014 at 09:28

I would imagine merging the Stonemarkets would be a nightmare thanks to the whole clocktower situation

Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion

Most of these tweaks were discussed here in a thread some years ago, the telepathy thing for instance wasn't my idea. Glad you like it!

Yeah I'm a little late to the party on all this. How's the telepathy thing work? It's more than just the weird voices I take it. Can they actually call each other from longer distances?

That's how I assumed they would work when I first encountered them ten years back. But it seems mostly that vanilla Enforcers were just typical aggressive AIs in most respects. Making them more interesting is a generally good thing.

Beleg Cúthalion on 21/8/2014 at 11:19

You can try to get caught by one enforcer (especially in Old Quarter where there are the most), not be killed and wait for a while until they rally. The idea of this telepathy thing was that all enforcers in the area would know your location if only one saw you.

@AntiMatter: Thanks for the homework. I'll look into that later. But as Muzman said, I can have a try but merging the City sections is probably too much a hassle. Maybe adding Garrett's apartment to SQ could work but even that would mean to change all the teleport destination actors leading back to it. I hadn't even thought of the Clocktower in Stonemarket. Plus, beta testing the new maps would be even more time-consuming, after all eight or nine game days need to be checked in detail.