snobel on 21/10/2022 at 08:43

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I've been having a go at merging several City maps into one, for use in a new version of T3 Gold.

Update: The first (https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152854) test map is out!

Disclaimer: There's no guarantee that the project will achieve sufficient quality to be the default City in T3G. What is guaranteed is that it will be released in some form. Other options are: as an opt-in part of T3G, as a separate mod on top of T3G, or, worst case, as a run-around demo map in FM form - to show what could have been. :)

The approach I've taken is this:


* Don't use T3Ed for combining the maps - as it's got a rep for breaking things when you move them around
* Set up a system of volumes and scripts to track the player so that the original City sections can be emulated within the combined map
* Systematically change triggerscript conditions that trigger on map start to instead use the emulated state
* Fix whatever is still broken :)
* Apply general polish

For merging the maps, I've used a home-grown tool to manipulate the current T3G City maps exported to .t3d format. The merged map is then imported and built in T3Ed. Another tool will be needed for the script-fixing phase. The polishing phase could benefit from assistance from people who actually know what they're doing with T3Ed...

The best City map, IMHO, would combine all the exterior maps with Garrett's apartment building, the Keeper Library and Fort Ironwood. The remaining City maps (Pavelock, the Abysmal Gale and Gamall's Lair) are mission-like maps that you typically visit once, so merging them makes less sense. Unfortunately T3Ed will not allow merging this many maps. :(

So, having to drop one map, Auldale1 seems like the best option: With Auldale across the river, a bit of travel time seems reasonable. You actually go there less than to Fort Ironwood. And the two Auldale maps can be merged too, eliminating another two map transitions. This solution seems to work out, but it's right on the edge of what T3Ed allows. I seriously hope it won't be necessary to drop another map from the merge, because there's no good candidate.

So this is what the map looks like:

[CENTER]https://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/27/26297/Sections.png[/CENTER]

I like this configuration, because it matches the in-game City map (inset) fairly well. Also, none of the maps have been rotated in full, at the expense of the north direction changing in some maps (Stonemarket and Docks). It also allows both integrating the original maps fairly tightly and keeping the original in-game looks.

Update January 2025: All the border areas (green lines) have been fixed up, including section-specific ambient sounds. The Library is now much better connected to Stonemarket, with Keeper Orland's balcony providing a view of the clock tower. This is at the expense of having rotated Orland's office by 90° - a deviation from the principle of maintaining the original appearance of the maps because it's just the best compromise...

Red lines were intended to be optional new larger connections, with the one from Docks to Old Quarter being a tunnel or sewer beneath Fort Ironwood. These are currently not possible - there are some ideas to try but it will not happen in the first version of the map. The red dotted line is of course the unchanged connection to Auldale.

The dark green dots are where new main gate meshes were needed. One to properly tie the sections together, another to hide 'overflow' from Garrett's apartment building into South Quarter. These are ready, as are quite a few other edited original meshes which were needed for various purposes.

Source_of_Truth on 21/10/2022 at 20:15

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This is very interesting. Please continue :D.

snobel on 25/10/2022 at 09:08

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I thought about that, and it may still be an option, but only if the current plan doesn't work out. I already have test scripts for doing partial merges, such as Stonemarket or Old Quarter, so going the less ambitious route is easy.

No, the Old Quarter maps were clearly one map at some point, and they still fit together quite nicely.


That's true - there should be a pair of signs at the gate, just like there are at the other gates.


The Stonemarket1-2 maps also fit together quite well. The clocktower is almost at the same location relative to the gate. Currently I've kept the one from SM1, which is also visible from SM2 although it's slightly lower.

snobel on 25/3/2023 at 07:13

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There's no guarantee that the sections were meant to fit together the way they're fit together in this project. Could also be that there were sections in between that were at one point deleted. Doesn't really matter - we have what we have and so we have to make the best of it. :)


There will be no changes to the original maps that are not for bugfixing or necessary to facilitate the merging - sorry!

I think those somewhat labyrinthic passages are there to limit the amount of visible geometry and so increase performance. Nothing to do with map loading, surely? Loading two maps at once is not an option for this game, it even quits and restarts before every load of a new map or savegame...

Sunderland on 26/3/2023 at 00:33

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Indeed, it's a shame that the map of the City in the Keeper library in TDP and the one given to us in DS are in typical Thief-like fashion very vague and lacking in detail. If there's one map we could expect to be very detailed it would be one of a cosmopolitan city!


Bummer! :p


I didn't make myself clear - I wasn't referring to loading two separate maps as in Stonemarket Proper/Plaza, but rather dynamically loading sections of a map as the player passes through an invisible plane in order to help reduce strain on the system. If the passages were straight the game would have to render both parts of the map at once, which would make the framerate drop as Beleg Cúthalion mentioned. Modern games still do this nowadays (including Thief 2014), but they typically hide it better by having you shimmy through an opening in the wall or mash a button to complete a QTE in order to progress (or both at the same time, like in Thief 2014... :rolleyes:)


Ah yes, the good ole "rebooting the system" method of Xbox memory management... :cheeky:


Interesting, I am still to play FMs for DS. The only place that made the framerate drop for me in DS (with the merged maps though I'm pretty sure it must also happen in vanilla) was the two-story courtyard in the museum which is a very open space with a handful of guards and many light sources.