Fidcal on 14/4/2010 at 10:50

---

Need clue please. Part 2 Largo

3rd floor I think. Everywhere locked up tight. Good clues about key on blue sash. Cannot find it in logical place in Valet's room. Tried cupboards and doors. Maybe it's been stolen. Maybe it's with the cleaners.

Only open route seems to be to the study but 3 guys in there. One has blue coat and red sash so maybe he is the valet but not wearing his blue sash today? I cannot see the 3rd guy.

No way in that one open door without an alert. I have tried 3 water arrows but can only just get inside. I can't get anywhere without an alert.

Tried a diversion to lure them out but nowhere good to hide. One guard came out and found me easily.

If there were another key maybe I can get round a different way.

Ante rooms to throne(?) room. Woman has no key. Reading man has no key.

There is another clue about hitting a key. The only possible door I can find from the aide's room is a non-highlighting door and no sign of a key so I assume it is on the other side and you have to hit it when you come from that direction. Or maybe hit the door itself not the key? Either way I've not been able to find a heavy object. I don't seem to have maul any longer so I assume that disappeared when I used it on the vent door. If I could get back downstairs I could get the drill. Maybe I can rope back down the dumbwaiter shaft?

The above is as far as my reasoning, searching, and patience have taken me so I'd be glad of another clue. Or rather, if it is just a key 'somewhere' then I'd rather you just tell me. But if it is something in one room then I don't mind searching one room

Extra frustrating because I can't get Thief to work on my new Vista PC so I'm struggling with about 3 or 4 fps.

Zontik on 14/4/2010 at 11:34

---

Fidcal, you need to find a way back to the ground floor.
Don't think about elevator shaft, this way is completely broken.
Look at the inactive door you mentioned from another side. Door glass may prevent you from direct view, so don't shy.
I suppose you've read valet's message downstairs. Don't take it literally, 'heavy' object may be just a metaphoric image. Something else you have can help better.
Answer to your next most probably qeestion: where is valet?
Hу is trying to find out what has happened with the dumbwaiter. If I were him, I would ask some person... engineer? butler? chief guard, at last?

Unkillable Cat on 14/4/2010 at 12:39

---

People seem to be wanting me to post constructive criticism beyond that which I've already posted. I'll admit that my limited playing of the FM doesn't give a lot of room to do so, but if I were to give further suggestions as to what this FM needs, it would comprise of two things:

Either:

# Delete the first mission entirely, and have the player start at the castle.

# Hand the FM over to a competent level/game designer, and let him finish the work that this FM badly needs.

It is clear that the meat and potatoes part of the FM is the second mission. I can understand the need and/or desire to build up suspension/give plot exposition by having the player first journey to the castle, but we don't need to have a flat tire at every turn in the road, do we? And before anyone says it, I'm not suggesting that the journey be a short stroll through the countryside, or heaven forbid, travel by camvator.

Let's go through a short checklist:

# Where is the player coming from? Really, take a look around the starting area. I couldn't see anything that suggested to me how I got there. There's no building visible, no road, no doorway, no helicopter flying off in the distance, no parachute tucked away under a rock...nothing.

# Where is the player going? Well, forward is the obvious answer, but then what? Like I said before, there is virtually no visible path through the monotonous mountains, we're left with trial and error to determine where we're supposed to go, and let's not forget the misleading "landmark" that the ghost is. Worse yet, we have an objective that says that we can't stray off the path. What path? The simple art of exploring our surroundings is threatened by constant punishment. But wait a minute...

# Does the player have a map? Yes, we do, and it looks pretty good, but it didn't help me at all, because I couldn't find a vital element on it: Our position. I could see a waterfall and a castle, and I recall a lake, some directional directions and tons of mountains, but where am I on that map? I'll admit that I may have missed the "You are here"-marker, but one thing's for certain, it isn't easy to spot. If at all. If that map is going to be useful, we need to see one of those defining landmarks rather quickly, and without having to change out flat tires 3 or 4 times first. Can someone tell me how long it takes to get to the waterfall, for example?

(On a related note, anyone notice the directions we're traveling in at the start? Assuming we start facing north, it won't take long until we're traveling in a south-easternly direction, with indications that we'll be traveling due south shortly. I wouldn't be surprised if the path turned west shortly afterwards. I know that Moscow has to live with (http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2007/01/25/thrilling-wonders/) roadworks like this (second pic, scroll down) but why inflict that upon a player in a video game? There's clearly a lot of work and thought put into this FM, so doing something as silly as this kinda sticks out, especially when it clashes so badly with "Where is the player coming from?")

# What drives the player to keep playing? Really, stop and think about this. I'm only talking about the beginning of the first mission here. Let's assume that someone is playing this who has no idea what the rest of the FM has in store, that hasn't seen any of the screenshots, that hasn't heard the gasps of awe over the beauty of the second mission. (That time will come, believe me.) That player is greeted by a hideously plain and ugly landscape and told to go find a castle, aided by a useless map, with no clear sense of direction and inevitable punishment if he takes a wrong turn. Nice welcome, why bother playing on?

And this is all just from the first minutes of the FM. It's Game Design 101. It's not rocket science. And yet Zontik overlooked all of this? I'm half-scared of think of what else has gone wrong in the rest of this FM.

I stand by every word I've said. This is the Daikatana of Thief FM's, rivalled only by Calendra's Legacy. Speaking of CL...



Truer words haven't been spoken, though the meaning I read from them totally contradicts their original meaning.

I wouldn't be spending time writing this if I didn't care. It's just that these faults are so glaringly obvious, I'm surprised that someone so talented could have missed out on them.

Jimpy on 14/4/2010 at 13:00

---

i hit the buttons rapidly on the musical note console and found an easter egg. i thought i typed "eggg" but it must have been some combination of e and g, i dunno, i've been running around in slippers avoiding guys for hours, my brain is now officially dead, either way, i broke the egg and found a suprise!

clearing on 14/4/2010 at 13:08

---

Jimpy, congrats!
Try to break an egg.