Thief 1/2 & SShock 2: DDFix and Enhanced Resolution Patch - discussion

Timeslip on 3/4/2008 at 07:34

Updated the (http://timeslip.chorrol.com/temp/ddfixBeta.7z) beta again. (To 1.3.3, for anyone who hasn't been keeping track)

Code:

New file type supported: dds (Must contain rgb data and be either 24 or 32 bit)
ddfix now overrides thief's normal mipmap handling for replaced textures, fixing the aliasing problem

ddfix will turn handling of mipmaps back over to the graphics diver for any replaced textures, so you don't have to worry about using something of a similar size to the texture you're replacing any more.

Since .bmp or .tga files can't contain mipmaps, ddfix will generate them itself. dds files are allowed to contain mipmaps, so ddfix will take all of the mipmap data straight from the file rather than trying to generate its own. (If the dds doesn't contain mipmaps, ddfix wont create them automatically.)

Edit: I think the only big issue left now is that you can't replace existing .tgas, and hence can't retexture anything that uses an alpha channel. Anyone spotted any other problems?

Edit2: You can also pick normally unsupported resolutions like 1280x960 now. It's also done by patching thief code though, so it's something else that won't work with thief 1/SS2. (Hence why it's only in this beta, and not in a 1.2.7.)

Edit3: bah. Spotted a problem with loosing the mipmaps when you alt tab. Will get that fixed asap. :(

242 on 3/4/2008 at 09:08

Timeslip, Thief2 on ATI 3870 + ddfix 1.2.7/1.3.3. (tried both) report.

First of all, I'm greatly happy with how the card works with ddfix 1.1.1, the only problem - absence of fog and mild pixelation of certain textures, otherwise picture quality is a way better than in unpatched game (no specific 16-bit dithering artefacts, no switching to 640x480, better contrast and colors). Thanks!

Now about the new versions of the fix.
Unfortunately, they have problems with the card that make the game unplayable for me.

Firstly, the game became slow, when I turned on RivaTuner's hardware monitor in background to check what was going on, I saw that 3850/3870 chips's feature, "Powerplay", constantly changed GPU's frequency - 333Mhz to 775Mhz and back (so called Low 3d - High 3d mode), with 1.1.1 it always was 775Mhz and fps were fluid.

Secondly, when I alt-tab to desktop (which I do quite often while playing to translate some word with dictionary program) and alt-tab back, the gamma setting in game returns to default or becomes equal to graphics card driver's setting (I'm not sure), so I have to re-tune it in game each time I alt-tab. This problem also wasn't present in 1.1.1.

That's all for now :) Thanks for you work!

PS: I set GPU's frequency to constant 775Mhz with RivaTuner and it didn't help at all - the game was still the same slow. If you'll have trouble with nailing the bug, I may try every version after 1.1.1 to determine where it was introduced.

Timeslip on 3/4/2008 at 09:16

Both of those are driver issues. (The gamma problem with some ATi cards has been mentioned before, iirc.) Then again, so are the lack of dithering etc., so I suppose that's the sort of thing I'm trying to fix in the first place. :(

I can probably fix the gamma problem easily enough, but I have no ideas about the other. Try switching drivers is the only advice I can give.

Edit: And it will have been introduced with 1.2.0. :p

242 on 3/4/2008 at 09:48

Quote Posted by Timeslip

Both of those are driver issues.
I can probably fix the gamma problem easily enough, but I have no ideas about the other. Try switching drivers is the only advice I can give.

Edit: And it will have been introduced with 1.2.0. :p

You mean this is the reason of the unexpected slowness problem - "Switched from DX 9 down to DX6"?
I.e. drivers work fine with DX9 and are somehow slow with DX6 in T2? But the game isn't slow when not patched with ddfix...

I guess the problem apply ATI 2x00/3x00 series in general, or at least Catalyst 8.2/8.3.

Timeslip on 3/4/2008 at 09:57

Quote Posted by 242

You mean this is the reason of the slowness problem - "Switched from DX 9 down to DX6"?

Yup.

Quote Posted by 242

But the game isn't slow when not patched with ddfix...

If thief isn't slow without ddfix, try playing around with the UseSysMemOverlay setting. 0, 1 and 2 are the valid options. Give them all a try.

242 on 3/4/2008 at 10:24

Timeslip, sorry, the game is the same slow without fix as it is with your post 1.1.1 fixes. I just uninstalled the fix and the game shows the same speed (checked "The Seven Sisters" T2 FM, it's definitely not playable this way). However, it runs perfectly fluid with ddfix 1.1.1. :tsktsk: .

Quote Posted by Timeslip

If thief isn't slow without ddfix, try playing around with the UseSysMemOverlay setting. 0, 1 and 2 are the valid options. Give them all a try.

Tried it without luck. 2 is the same as 0, and with 1 there is no game screen at all, just sounds.

So it seems the problem is drivers after all.
Well, then can you do a special version of DX9 ddfix that would support T1 + include other new features of the fix, or at least just added T1 support if the features aren't possible with DX9, specially for ATI card owners? Because with DX6 versions the game really is barely playable at best...

Timeslip on 3/4/2008 at 11:51

1.3.5 is up.

Code:

Added a new gamma compatibility option
Added an ini option to disable features which only work on Thief 2
Fixed an issue with replacement textures turning up in unexpected places
Fixed an issue with replacement textures being lost on alt-tab

Last call for bugs, before I declare it probably-not-a-beta-anymore.

Quote Posted by 242

Well, then can you do a special version of DX9 ddfix that would support T1 + include other new features of the fix, or at least just added T1 support if the features aren't possible with DX9, specially for ATI card owners? Because with DX6 versions the game really is barely playable at best...

Unfortinately, the whole point of switching to DX6 was to fix the bugs that were caused by switching to DX9 in the first place. If I could fix them in DX9, I wouldn't have needed to change back to 6. :(

Does 1.1 not work with Thief 1? Apart from the GUI not recognising the exe, it should work the same as with thief 2, as long as the WindowFix option is turned off.

I've added an option that should fix the gamma for you in 1.3.5. I know it's not much help while you still have the slowdown problem, but it might be useful if you find some working drivers at some point.

242 on 3/4/2008 at 12:56

Quote Posted by Timeslip

1
Unfortinately, the whole point of switching to DX6 was to fix the bugs that were caused by switching to DX9 in the first place. If I could fix them in DX9, I wouldn't have needed to change back to 6. :(

I see. But I thought that you should keep to update DX9 version too with newer features of DX6 version that are applicable for this version. I.e. keep too "lines" of the fix. After all, absence of fog is more bearable than horrible speed of the game :), as I wrote, with DX6 ddfixes at least big missions aren't playable on newer Radeons (as well as without the fix) - very slow at places.

As for 1.1.1 bugs, I haven't noticed any other bugs on 3870 than absent fog and quite mild pixelation of some textures (not nearly horrible, absolutely bearable IMO).

Quote:

Does 1.1 not work with Thief 1? Apart from the GUI not recognising the exe, it should work the same as with thief 2, as long as the WindowFix option is turned off.

I haven't tried it yet as I haven't T1 installed, I thought 1.1 was working with T2 only.

Quote:

I've added an option that should fix the gamma for you in 1.3.5. I know it's not much help while you still have the slowdown problem, but it might be useful if you find some working drivers at some point.

Thanks.

PS: Just tested it, the gamma fix actually doesn't work, with 1.1.1 in-game gamma never changes after alt-tab...
This may help: when I alt-tab with 1.1, the desktop is affected by Thief ingame gamma setting (same gamma), but with beta - it's not.

Hiatus on 3/4/2008 at 14:47

OMG, new version flood - was away for a while and 3 new versions popped up (.3, .4, .5). Timeslip, you're on a roll - *very* interesting changelog to say the least ;). I'll try to catch up and test .5 later today to see if I can find any remaining issues/bugs and will report back here.

About the ATI HD2xxx/3xxx slowdown on 1.2 and up (and vanilla T2 as well, as it turns out): that's a bit unfortunate as I was going to upgrade from my X1950 Pro (which doesn't exhibit any slowdowns on neither version of ddfix, fortunately - or I just didn't spot it yet - but it's highly unlikely) to some 3xxx (or future 4xxx). Guess it's out of question now, and again Nvidia is the only option :(. ATI drivers for their DX10 hardware appear to be really crappy ATM (unlike those for DX9 hardware which seem to be quite mature at that point).

Looks like current ATI DX6 drivers for/on their DX10 hardware do sth (DX6 function(s)) T2 utilises/relies on very slow (either a bug or a deliberate design decision to cut sth down etc) - but what it might be :confused: ?

Too bad you don't have a modern DX10 ATI hardware to develop/test your fix on :/ (we *really* should get you one or two :)). Then it would be easier for you to find out what specific T2 does that is causing the slowdown and try to workaround it on ATI DX10 hardware.

@242: what is rest of your config besides ATI 3870 (CPU, RAM, mainboard chipset, OS etc)? Try contacting ATI support about the issue here: (http://support.ati.com/ics/survey/survey.asp?deptID=894&surveyID=486&type=web) - describe the problem - maybe they'll be able to fix it (if they want to). Good luck!

242 on 3/4/2008 at 15:15

Quote Posted by Hiatus

hehe, just because Thief is slow on newer hardware with latest Catalysts? how about ddfix 1.1? It fixes it ;)
+ maybe it's only WinXP problem.

Quote:

ATI drivers for their DX10 hardware appear to be really crappy ATM (unlike those for DX9 hardware which seem to be quite mature at that point).

Run all more or less modern games I tried without problems.