jtr7 on 30/3/2013 at 07:10
It's so much more than that, Renz'. You have to know that, and just not care. How much money and extraneous development could be saved if it wasn't spent on the art, the code, the clever naming (do they have meetings or submissions contests and approval practices?), the testing, the discovering and sharing of new achievement possibilities, the (please no!) designing of situations to serve an achievement, and the damned leaderboards and web pages? I know it gives the gaming sites and magazines plenty of filler material collecting them like Pokémons. How much money could they shave off the cost of the game to the customer, or how much could they profit, especially with an "M" rating in a title that appeals to players who don't want to feel like the game they're playing is for children sometimes?
Goldmoon Dawn on 30/3/2013 at 07:17
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Unless they make them game specific, you don't even need anyone to vote. Just turn off notifications in Steam, or...God forbid...Windows Live.
Yeah, ok. Call me oldschool or whatever name you want but if I cant go down to the store, buy Thief IV, take it home and play it without going on the internet first, um yeah... no thanks. They *did* say that they are making if for PC first. Didnt you hear the latest podcast yet?!?!
Renzatic on 30/3/2013 at 07:23
Quote Posted by jtr7
It's so much more than that, Renz'. You have to know that, and just not care. How much money and extraneous development could be saved if it wasn't spent on the art, the code, the clever naming (do they have meetings or submissions contests and approval practices?), the testing, the discovering and sharing of new achievement possibilities, the (please no!) designing of situations to serve an achievement, and the damned leaderboards and web pages? I know it gives the gaming sites and magazines plenty of filler material collecting them like Pokémons. How much money could they shave off the cost of the game to the customer, or how much could they profit, especially with an "M" rating in a title that appeals to players who don't want to feel like the game they're playing is for children sometimes?
Considering most achievements come from playing a certain way, it's not like they have to change huge swaths of the game to accommodate them.
Like you'll probably get an achievement for ghosting through a mission successfully. You'll probably be doing that anyway. It's the game you want to be designed. It's rewarding you for playing like Garrett. There are no losses in that regard.
Sometimes you'll get one for reaching a certain point. Like climbing through a particularly hard to reach window, or working you way up to the top of a bell tower. That wouldn't take any time to implement. It's just a script box, and a developer taking the time out to reward someone for doing something in his level not everyone would take the time to do or notice.
It's not just "playing for the high score". For me, they're usually something I do after I beat the game, and want to spend a little extra time exploring all the nooks and crannies. Sometimes I'll do that just to see all there is to see. The achievements? They're a nifty little bonus.
At worst, they're completely pointless, but they're not damaging to the gameplay in the least. From the way I understand it, it's something the developers don't even implement until the closing days of production.
Renzatic on 30/3/2013 at 07:24
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
Yeah, ok. Call me oldschool or whatever name you want but if I cant go down to the store, buy Thief IV, take it home and play it without going on the internet first, um yeah... no thanks. They *did* say that they are making if for PC first. Didnt you hear the latest podcast yet?!?!
It's a checkbox you click once and never bother with again. As a PC gamer, specially an oldschool one, you should be well versed in taking a little extra time out before you play a game to make sure everything is set to your satisfaction.
Starker on 30/3/2013 at 07:58
What's wrong with achievements, you ask?
Simple: gamification is cheap and stupid, gamification of video games doubly so.
jtr7 on 30/3/2013 at 10:38
Quote Posted by Renzatic
It's a checkbox you click once and never bother with again. As a PC gamer, specially an oldschool one, you should be well versed in taking a little extra time out before you play a game to make sure everything is set to your satisfaction.
Except for the part about owning it first to find out if it can even be set to our satisfaction. That's always going to be a sticking point for the discriminating gamer. Adding achievements means the thinking behind it is accepted and embraced by the team, and it's one of many doors that, once opened, can allow other tacked on game-y crap to mire the development. I wouldn't doubt it led to some of the things that Stephane Roy was questioning: Okay why was this ever brought into the game? It may be that Roy saved T4 and some fans from a bunch of stupid game-y junk that has not one thing to do with Thief itself, except pronouns and loot numbers. All these meta-games should be left to individual players, not worked into the development cycle and bogging down the artists and UI people with a needless--and it is needless--to-do list. Hell, make it a DLC, or have a third-party work on it, same with multiplayer. Go for it, but keep the vanilla Thief lean and f***in' mean.
Vivian on 30/3/2013 at 10:59
Jesus, is everyone honestly going to start bitching about needing to be online and oh aren't achievements unnecessary? Did I wake up in 2004 or something? Yes, they're a little annoying, although sometimes it's quite satisfying to get them, ultimately, they don't make any difference and I doubt they took up more than a days work. A small tile and a pop-up? Damn, better upvise that budget by a few million.
SubJeff on 30/3/2013 at 11:40
Quote Posted by jtr7
Except for the part about owning it first to find out if it can even be set to our satisfaction.
I do this thing called reading about it.
Quote:
That's always going to be a sticking point for the discriminating gamer.
No it isn't.
Quote:
Adding achievements means the thinking behind it is accepted and embraced by the team, and it's one of many doors that, once opened, can allow other tacked on game-y crap to mire the development.
This is a stretch. Many games have achievements that don't affect anything else. Heck, even Thief 1 and 2 have them. 100% loot. GAME WAS RUINED
Quote:
It may be that Roy saved T4 and some fans from a bunch of stupid game-y junk that has not one thing to do with Thief itself, except pronouns and loot numbers.
And twizzles and sherberts? I mean, wtf?
Quote:
All these meta-games should be left to individual players, not worked into the development cycle and bogging down the artists and UI people with a needless--and it is needless--to-do list.
Was 100% loot a to-do list?
