chk772 on 29/3/2013 at 02:44
Quote Posted by jtr7
don't know why they felt the need to have the blackjack raise itself
Because it's a visual indication of when you are able to blackjack an opponent. In TDS you are only able to blackjack someone from a certain angle, standing behind him. The blackjack raises when a knockout will be achieved.
Btw, i have no idea what your problems with the camera are. I'm playing TDS through for a second time at the moment, and i have no problems at all with the movement. In fact it is really great and not at all "optimized for 3rd person view and broken in 1st person view". In fact i don't understand most of your points at all. The thing is that it feels more like moving in a real body than Thief 1 & 2 do. One thing that is jerky is that when leaning left or right, you move in the direction you are leaning a bit, so you'll have to make sure you are not near a ledge or something as you might fall down while leaning. Another thing is that there is a bug which leads the character to "freeze" in some weird looking movement, when you do a jump near a wall or obstacle you won't get up. Only falling down or loading a save game solves that. But apart from those, the controlling of the character is great. Really works fine in both 1st person and 3rd person view.
jtr7 on 29/3/2013 at 02:52
I know why they felt they needed to add it, but why they didn't leave it up to the player to learn the skill, and not assume that proximity to an AI meant intent to knock them out? Leave the player be. Don't be an annoying and inappropriate helping hand, or at least let players go and toggle the help on/off.
I qualified how the problems arise, and I am hardly alone in the problem. It seems related to tech and software conflicts, or something. Like I said--and I wasn't being comprehensive--unless the game is running smoothly on the system, the problems become [more] noticeable. They are there, quite tangible, and if you've never experienced it, that's wonderful--for you. All the games have certain kinds of bugs that are rare or damnably frequent, depending on the individual systems. The newer my system, the more new issues crop up for me, that used to be something only others complained about, like texture tearing, rope bounce, and getting stuck in invisible terrain.
Goldmoon Dawn on 29/3/2013 at 02:58
Quote Posted by chk772
In fact it is really great and not at all "optimized for 3rd person view and broken in 1st person view". In fact i don't understand most of your points at all. The thing is that it feels more like moving in a real body than Thief 1 & 2 do.
Quote Posted by jtr7
The body had to rotate like a compass drawing around a center point, which wasn't between the feet, but seemed off-center on one foot, causing the model to walk in an arc right off a narrow path if you didn't take the time to overcompensate first.
Im sorry, chk772, but this is not disputable information. This was recognised right away and talked about over and over at the time it was relevant.
chk772 on 29/3/2013 at 03:05
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
Im sorry, chk772, but this is not disputable information. This was recognised right away and talked about over and over at the time it was relevant.
Frankly, i don't even understand the explanation of that phenomene. Nor did it bother me in any way when i'm playing... but ok. :cheeky:
jtr7 on 29/3/2013 at 03:08
I am curious to know how many people who don't notice that one thing are long-time console controller users. That movement was not designed around a mouse, but an XBox controller, with coarse movement, before fine control became the standard. Anyone who was used to that kind of controller wouldn't struggle with the movement. I cannot use and cannot stand how those controllers are tied into gaming because they bring out every single f***ed-up thing that's wrong with my muscle-coordination. As for others who also struggle with TDS (I always thought it apropos that it sounds like "tedious") movement, I can't speak for them, but there are scores of individuals whov'e posted their frustrations every year since the game came out.
june gloom on 29/3/2013 at 03:09
Actually the movement was very clunky with or without a controller. I've played with both and I can honestly tell you I felt fine movement was much more possible with a mouse and keyboard. Argument invalid.
chk772 on 29/3/2013 at 03:13
I don't get why you wouldn't be able to cope with the movement of TDS. Ever played Chronicles of Riddick? It has a similar movement, with the movements slightly "lagging" behind the controls, due to the body movement. As i said, i don't fully get your point though. Maybe you mean something else. And no, i'm not used to console controllers. PC keyboard/mouse player since the mid 90ies.
jtr7 on 29/3/2013 at 03:57
I stated it right there in my post. Also, Thief shouldn't have the movement problems of TDS, and I'd never heard that CoR's were the same as TDS to bring it in as an illustration. A lot of Thief fans thought CoR was pretty decent, and there were never anywhere near the same kinds of aspersions cast against it by those disappointed and frustrated with TDS. I wouldn't be interested in CoR, anyway, so no, I've never played it, but that's separate from the issues I and others have posted thousands of times about TDS's movement and controls. I've never used the term myself, but a search for "drunk" and "drunken" in the Thief boards, here and elsewhere, will show what others have said.
I hated the classic NES controller. The issues go back even before that with some coin-op arcade controls. You will not understand, especially if you missed the gist of it in the previous post, and I'm not the guy to try and put it into words for you, sorry.
Goldmoon Dawn on 29/3/2013 at 04:00
Quote Posted by chk772
I don't get why you wouldn't be able to cope with the movement of TDS.
I just figured that since they went ahead and released that abomination on PC, I might as well play using the mouse/keyboard setup I already had. It never occured to me to get a controller instead. But as dethtoll kinda pointed out, it wouldnt have mattered much since apprently 3rd person sucked as well. Nevertheless, in my attempt to play with mouse/keyboard, or should I say... keyboard. Yes, thats right, I played Thief III with keyboard only (with obvious exceptions noobs). So, as I am walking straight up to a "cliff", I stop right at the very edge and look down. Then, I look to the left. Now that I am looking left, I decide to start walking... guess what! I fall right off the damn cliff, because my body has to swing around first, like jtr was dutifully reporting. I can see why it wouldnt matter to a 3rd person gamer though, because you would never have the want or need to go right to the very edge of a cliff, and if you did would prolly be smart enough to back up first before moving again. That just isnt classic Thief game design, sorry. Thief is a 1st person game, and if anyone dicks around with the formula, they will enjoy the same results and worse that Deadly enjoyed.
:)
june gloom on 29/3/2013 at 05:53
Quote Posted by jtr7
I hated the classic NES controller.
Other than not being exactly ergonomic there was nothing wrong with that thing.
