ZylonBane on 26/2/2014 at 17:37
Quote Posted by Thirith
Not sure I understand you. Doesn't it make more sense for the view to control your, well, view, while the mouse controls your aim?
Not when it also controls the direction you move. When mouse movement is replaced with head tracking, your head basically becomes a giant analog stick. As described in (
http://kotaku.com/i-played-the-oculus-rift-for-five-hours-straight-987568701) this Kotaku article:
Quote:
If you move your mouse around in the middle two-thirds of the screen it doesn’t affect the camera; It just moves your crosshair. Only when the aiming reticle goes into the outer third of the screen does the camera begin to turn. Head movement also allows you to turn the camera—i.e., if you look to your left in the real world, so does Gordon's head.
So the precision of mouse movement is gone, replaced with the "tank" controls of a gamepad.
I'd be more happy with "mech" controls, where the M+KB operates the same as always, controlling the orientation of your body, while the head tracking allows you to look around somewhat independently of your body, but has no control over movement.
sNeaksieGarrett on 26/2/2014 at 17:47
Yeah that does sound awkward. So basically, if I understand correctly, you could be looking to your left and when you make your character walk he goes in that direction even though you weren't intending to, you just wanted to look in that direction but continue walking straight.
Neb on 26/2/2014 at 17:56
From the video and the article: Nope, it doesn't seem that way. Forget the head tracking for a second. It uses practically the same mouse controls as Operation Flashpoint (aiming deadzone.) In a portion of the centre of the screen you can aim without turning your character. When you hit the limit at the edges of your vision, your whole body (and aim) turns in that direction. Now add in head tracking. If you looked over your left shoulder and moved the mouse to the right 'deadzone' limit your entire body, along with your view, would turn to the right.
I instantly recognised the way that it works in the video from playing the first Arma game with TrackIR (head tracking peripheral). Before I bought it it wasn't entirely clear how it would work, and it's a pain in the arse playing a first person shooter with consistent tracking sensitivity. I configured it so that at the centre of aim there's a load of deceleration so that your view sticks a bit if you're trying to look ahead. I don't know whether that's something that you can do with the Rift, or whether it's needed.
EDIT: A further thing. If what I'm saying doesn't turn out to be uninformed nonsense, and if my experience with TrackIR does apply to the tracking with Oculus Rift, the guy playing is always walking towards where he's looking only because he's spending his time trying to keep his weapon in view. Before I lowered my TrackIR sensitivity for looking straight forwards, if I turned my head and lost view of the cursor it was disorientating trying to find it again, even though you'd imagine that you should be able to feel when your own face is pointing straight forward. With the sensitivity tweaks you can feel exactly when you've 'snapped' your aim back to centre (like a mini black hole), and so actually start exploring with your head a lot more when you know how easy it is to return.
I really need to try the Oculus Rift now.
Renzatic on 26/2/2014 at 19:10
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
I'd be more happy with "mech" controls, where the M+KB operates the same as always, controlling the orientation of your body, while the head tracking allows you to look around somewhat independently of your body, but has no control over movement.
I agree in the sense that moving the mouse outside of a static deadzone being responsible for pivoting isn't the best solution, but I do think it's a better interim solution than considering the Rift as a 3rd independent point of movement bolted on top of the old kb/m standard. You have to consider what feels most natural in a setup where you're immersed in an environment that encompasses your entire field of vision, and is designed to move along with your head.
Like I mentioned earlier, motion sickness is one of the greatest bug bears of VR. Anything that doesn't move in sync with the way you expect it to could throw off your sense of balance, your feel for the way you normally move, and make you feel ill. Tracking lag is the biggest culprit of this, but any type of movement that doesn't seem "right" will do it almost as much. The old setup will make it seem like you're a little guy in someone's head looking out through their eyes, and they're controlling a body like a mech, with upper and lower torso movements. For (obviously) mech games, that's fine. Throw people in a cockpit, and they'll immediately accept it. They have a fixed environment to orient themselves with, regardless of what's going on outside the window. But for games where it looks like standing some place on your own two feet, you automatically have certain expectations on how to interact and move about those surroundings. Throw that sense off, and it'll give people headaches and make them sick to their stomach.
Like imagine you're able to look around freely, but your arm is stuck out right in front of you, and moving your arms also moves your eyes independently. Like you're looking off to the left, and you see someone you have to shoot to the right. You move the mouse, and suddenly your entire field of vision moves without you shifting your head or eyes about to track the reticle in the dead center of the screen. You'd always have to move your head in near perfect coordination with your mouse to keep from feeling weird.
The perfect solution would be for the player to pivot physically to pivot ingame. But since the Rift can't track positioning down to that level of detail (as far as I know), the reticle deadzone works as a good stopgap measure, since it gives more control to your neck and eyes to look around your environment, rather than your arm.
sNeaksieGarrett on 26/2/2014 at 19:48
Hmm, well said Renz.
Quote Posted by Neb
In a portion of the centre of the screen you can aim without turning your character. When you hit the limit at the edges of your vision, your whole body (and aim) turns in that direction. Now add in head tracking. If you looked over your left shoulder and moved the mouse to the right 'deadzone' limit your entire body, along with your view, would turn to the right.
Ah, I gotcha. So that's the bit I wasn't getting. (The deadzone aspect of the VR setup.) So until you go outside that deadzone your character won't turn in that direction then. Based on what I've now read, and the hl2 video I've now seen, that seems like a pretty good setup.
Probably still feels 'weird' to turn your head to pan the camera rather than your mouse, but I guess after playing for a while you'd get used to it. Looked a bit goofy watching the guy mouse around to move his character's arm to shoot at something, but it actually makes sense regardless.
henke on 26/2/2014 at 20:44
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Like you're looking off to the left, and you see someone you have to shoot to the right. You move the mouse, and suddenly your entire field of vision moves without you shifting your head or eyes about to track the reticle in the dead center of the screen. You'd always have to move your head in near perfect coordination with your mouse to keep from feeling weird.
Yes, this is precisely why the deadzone is important, it lets you aim around a bit without moving your view around, which helps prevent nausea.
Anyway, HL2 is just one example of FPS controls with the Rift. Time Rifters for example has a system where your crosshair is always centered in your view, so where you look is always where you'll shoot. Just like any gaming peripheral it'll likely take a while before any kind of standard emerges, like WASD+mouse is in FPS's today. Remember how that evolved? First FPS control was all keyboard, then someone thought of using the mouse as well so then it was arrow keys+mouse, then someone thought of the crazy idea of having WASD be the movemment keys instead. I'm sure we'll see a bunch of different configurations still, including ZB's "mech" controls. For my money, the Time Rifters controls feel good, but I prefer HL2's system.
henke on 26/2/2014 at 21:45
Anyway, enough about HL2's controls scheme. Strike Suit Zero was so damn awesome I just had to record a video of it! :D
[video=youtube;vPCojMfcCZo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPCojMfcCZo[/video]
When I first tried it in the Rift I felt like the FOV was way too low. I read somewhere that it's around 45 and that sounds about right. I know it looks quite wide in the video but most of that is far out in your peripheral vision and what you're actually seeing is very narrow. But you know what? It works! It does get disorienting occasionally when you're being bombarded by heavy fire and indicators are flashing all over the screen, but I figure that's only realistic. Also, the HUD takes some getting used to. It's straight ahead of you, and very close. If you look in the upper left corner you can see objectives, lower right is video comm, etc.
Anyway, there's a problem with this game, and it's something I've run into a few times over this past week. It's an issue knows as... Rift Drift.
There's something off about the Rift in certain games. The view keeps sliding to the left, or right, almost imperceptibly. I think I first encountered it when I tried Portal 2. I got the gamepad's cord wrapped around my leg and when I took the headset off to inspect I realized that I was facing away from my computer. I had swiveled in my officechair bit by bit, adjusting to the new centerpoint of the game, which had slowly crept off to the left. There's a fix for this already, you can configure it in the Oculus SDK Calibration tool, but not all games use the data from this tool, so in some games, like Strike Suit Zero, your view will keep drifting to the side. How much it drifts seems to vary from time to time, when I recorded the video above it didn't happen until after I'd stopped recording. Thankfully most games have a "re-center Oculus Rift" key, which you can press once you're facing forward again, but this unfortunately does not stop the drift, so you'll have to keep pressing that key intermittently.
Anyway, despite that, Strike Suit Zero is a blast. Being able to look off to the side or up to see where the bogeys are feels awesome. :cool:
Renzatic on 27/2/2014 at 01:56
Quote Posted by henke
I'm sure we'll see a bunch of different configurations still, including ZB's "mech" controls. For my money, the Time Rifters controls feel good, but I prefer HL2's system.
Same here. The mech controls are more in line with what we're used to, and the first wave of Rift games will probably use it more than any other method at first. But now that we've finally got a good piece of VR, and some decent gyroscope equipped wand style controller tech a'la the Wiimote, there's no reason to couple your arm to your eye anymore. It's not as realistic, and it's not as cool.
Look around with your head, aim with your hand and arm. That's the way it should be done. Sorta like this...
[video=youtube;bhsCe5LHHyI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhsCe5LHHyI[/video]
...but without as much granular control of the environment. That'd be too much for a fast paced FPS (though it still could be cool if it ends up being done well).
BWWWAAMMMMPPPPsNeaksieGarrett on 27/2/2014 at 03:43
LOOK AT HIM, no regard for his property.:mad:
That's pretty cool though. Now that looked like a proper sim:p
by the way, Renz, do you have a Steam account? I'll add you. I mean, if that's cool and all.
Renzatic on 27/2/2014 at 04:19
Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett
LOOK AT HIM, no regard for his property.:mad:
That's pretty cool though. Now that looked like a proper sim:p
And that's the way it should be done! Bwwaarrrpppp aside.
Quote:
by the way, Renz, do you have a Steam account? I'll add you. I mean, if that's cool and all.
Yeah, I'll PM you my info and add you up.
...though I could've sworn I already had you friend-listed.
