Renault on 4/4/2023 at 16:56

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I still dig VR after 2 1/2 years, even though I'm definitely playing it less. I still have a decently sized backlog of games I want to check out, spread out over PSVR, Rift, Quest, and stuff on Steam. I'd actually like to retire my PSVR, but still have a couple of exclusives I want to finish off first (Blood & Truth, Arashi). I also think all the VR conversions for existing PC games is exciting, and there's several I want to check out. I'm probably a lock for picking up a Quest 3 this fall, taking into consideration the games I own and the games I want.

So I suppose I'm still in the honeymoon phase, but I think my week in Paris is just about up as there seems to be a real lack of good, brand new games coming out. We could use a few more Alyxs or Lone Echos, or even RE4s, but this year and last seem so dead. It doesn't help too that I have tons of flat games to play as well, on both PC and PS4/5, so there are always options.

woah on 11/4/2023 at 19:30

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Yeah "delusion" may be a poor word choice. I just know that during my first year of VR I genuinely thought I'd never play flat games again. Moreover, I thought that we just needed a bit better and more accessible hardware, plus AAA VR games, and then masses of people would do the same. But as you can see my view on it has changed dramatically. Looking at the mood on the PSVR subreddit now, I am reminded of the PCVR subreddits back in the 2016 and 2017 era. For me at least, the difficulty of coming to terms with the post honeymoon reality was less about how much money I sunk into VR and more about justifying that really crazed outlook I had on things. But even now, with what I consider a more "level headed" view on VR (indeed, many people often misinterpret me as being anti-VR now), I still just spent ~$1200 on a Bigscreen Beyond with an audio strap and will buy Valve's next HMD at basically any cost (might sound like I'm trying to brag but if you knew how much money I actually make you'd probably think I'm crazy/irresponsible)

But I completely agree about the spectacle clouding over the deficiencies of modern VR. The immersion does not completely go away (and is both reinvigorated with better hardware and appreciated again when going back to flat for a while), but like anything else it becomes less intense over time, and then the problems become more clear. Like, oh, this kind of display (at least as it exists now) is immersive but I can't actually focus on things comfortably (which I can still do on a flat display despite it being less immersive). Moreover, I think what you start to realize is that the functional affordances of a technology are just as important, and you start to question what functional affordances VR actually provides (that is, things aside from just being "more immersed"). For example, VR clearly does offer interactive affordances that flat gaming cannot provide--you cannot map every relevant 6DOF VR interaction and all of its nuances to a set of discrete keys/buttons that trigger contextual canned animations and corresponding actions. But at the same time, the limitations on motion controller feedback (basically, right now there's just vibration intensity and frequency) and the number of discrete inputs on the controllers still severely limit what is actually practical with those 6DOF interactions--most of the time the controllers are just employed as "grabbing spheres" with a layer of interaction heuristics over top of them to simplify things in compensation for absent feedback. Nonetheless, it's clear VR adds a new form of interaction that is still highly valuable, even when you're just aiming a rifle with your hands instead of a mouse cursor.




In terms of mass adoption and usage (of a scale comparable with flat games), I just see the energy, friction, and space requirements being the major issue. After work/school, I think most just want to chill out. Doesn't mean that there won't be a small market that will do it nonetheless or a larger market that just does it less frequently, but I think we'll see people playing flat games in VR headsets (which I think will eventually be a thing that's actually compelling) before you see motion controller gaming at the scale and regularity of flat gaming. However, it is interesting to me that about half of PCVR usage is just people chilling with their friends in VRChat.




If you're interested, there are actually some technologies that might help here (i.e. with 6DOF feedback). The thought is that we won't actually need impossible technologies (or impractical ones like exoskeleton suits) that directly simulate resistance and forces on hands one-to-one with real life interactions, but rather that we will get "close enough" by employing other feedback technologies that operate by means of sensory substitution. As a simple example just to set this up, you can think of a thumbstick as a form of sensory substitution: clearly you aren't actually replicating the process of walking/running in a virtual space 1-to-1 with real life when operating a simple thumbstick in VR, but the thumbstick's 2 degrees of freedom in combination with its "direction" and "magnitude" feedback provides a good enough counterpart (direction and magnitude as conveyed by the resistance of the thumbstick around its origin and the "rolling" of the top of the thumbstick). After all, what's important here is not that a thumbstick provides a 1-to-1 simulation of walking IRL, but rather that the degrees of input freedom are sufficient to give the user enough agency, and there is enough feedback for the user to effectively regulate that input (on top of just integrating well with our physiology)

In the same sense, there are certain technologies that may be able to do the same for 6DOF motion controller feedback--that is, convey to the user 6DOF directional and torque forces acting on the motion controller. For example, there is (https://www.roadtovr.com/miraisens-3dhaptics-directional-haptic-feedback/) this technology that uses special haptic patterns from LRA's that actually provide the user with the sensation that their hand is being forced or resisted in a certain direction (without actually resisting or stopping the hand of course). So you can imagine, as a very simple example, picking up an object in a VR game and feeling a constant downward force through the motion controller that indicates gravity. And as a more complex example, you can imagine swinging a sword and feeling the sum of all of the forces acting on that sword, e.g. the the inertia of the sword, the weight distribution of the sword through a torque sensation, the collision with objects, etc etc. A huge problem with VR melee combat--or any wielded virtual object for that matter--is that you have no clue how the virtual melee weapon is behaving in the simulation, leading to a disconnect between that simulation and your real life movements that is quite frustrating and clunky. But such a feedback technology could bridge this gap.

Of course, again, such a technology can't actually force your hand in a particular direction, which creates challenges in certain circumstances. So for situations where there's complete intersection with a surface or a de-synchronization (say, when the user sticks their hand through a virtual wall), you could do something like generate an intense vibration that indicates such a "de-synchronization" state and then the user could follow the aforementioned directional feedback to "solve"/undo the de-synchronization. Altogether, I think something like this might give you 6DOF feedback that could greatly improve many kinds of VR interactions. Thereafter you could worry about the incredibly hard problem providing input and feedback at the resolution of individual fingers (ala a more compact (https://www.roadtovr.com/haptx-haptic-gloves-g1-price-release-date/) HaptX)

Another example of such a technology is (https://www.roadtovr.com/tactical-haptics-bring-production-ready-haptic-vr-controllers-gdc-2019/) this one. Of course all such solutions have their own limitations and problems. Still, it's hard for me to imagine that nobody will create something that helps with 6DOF feedback through some kind of sensory substitution method.

Vincent L. Nalls on 15/4/2023 at 11:54

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Subnautica and The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners have provided such visceral and thrilling experiences. It's interesting to see how even small physical movements like looking up and down can add to the immersion of a (https://ropheroapk.com) game. It's also worth noting that some games may require more physical space than others, so it's important to take that into consideration when setting up your VR area.

Abode and Abode 2 are enjoyable room escape games with good puzzle variety, and it's interesting to hear about the full knuckles support in the sequel. the Room is a great match for VR. the tactile nature of the puzzles and the immersive environment make it a natural fit for VR. I also agree with the sentiment that it would be great to see this type of gameplay applied to different environments, genres, and atmospheres.

Aja on 9/5/2023 at 18:58

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Saints and Sinners, my final thoughts! (I commented this on Reddit, but I suspect they'll downvote me to oblivion). Overall: overrated.

Things I disliked: the melee combat is really finicky, especially with two-handed weapons, and the thing I like least in VR is waving my arms around to shake off enemies. It was scary the first time and frustrating pretty much every time afterward. I mostly didn't use the axe because it seemed like only half of my swings landed.

Environments and general art design are bland. I played it for 15 hours but I have no picture in my head what Rampart or Old Town or the Shallows look like. I just remember boarded up houses, boarded up warehouses, couches in the streets, and a lot of really ugly characters who speak many words very slowly but never say anything interesting. A couple pivotal story conversations hinted at something bigger, but it never happened. And the radio conversations... I kept wandering outside the radio range and had to tell Casey "Okay; I'm ready to listen now" but truthfully I wasn't.

The gun mechanics are generally good and arm tracking worked well although the two-handed guns are so bouncy that I could never get them out in time to make a quick shot, which lead to more swarming.

And for a game that's mainly about scrounging, it's oddly difficult to open and close doors and drawers, which you have to do hundreds of times, and there should've been some streamlining in the crafting, particularly the process of putting each item in the recycle bin, one a time. A lot of the items, like keyboards or rifle husks, are too big, so you have to contort yourself to drop them in, which isn't fun.

In fact, varying degrees of discomfort is kind of my lingering memory of the game. My character's cough sound is like twice as loud as anything else, and I had to listen to that a lot at the beginning, until I was finally able to craft medicine. Lots of awkward swinging my arms around in melee, awkward arm twisting to open cupboards and doors, awkward grasping for my weapons that I didn't intend to drop. Lots of grabbing for my map and getting a flashlight. I also felt that motion clarity wasn't as good as I would like, but that might've been me getting my VR legs. I feel more comfortable in Light Brigade for some reason.

Overall I liked it enough to finish it, but I'm less jazzed at the prospect of having to do it all over again in the sequel. I probably shouldn't have bought the two-pack.

woah on 10/5/2023 at 12:23

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I kinda agree about the melee combat in S&S. While they certainly made it "look nice", they overrode physics with RNG elements and thresholds (such as with swing speed) that would determine whether or not hits should land or miss. I just found it pretty frustrating, like "wait no I clearly hit that guy but you want me to override what I perceive is happening to comply with your simplified ruleset"

Melee combat remains as a really hard problem in VR. Too heavily physics based and the missing feedback frustrates effective control (a disconnect between your internal simulation and the virtual simulation). And then simplified melee combat often makes you feel like you'd rather just press a button, because the generality and nuance offered by motion controllers becomes redundant.