Thirith on 19/6/2020 at 07:33
What are people's thoughts on Star Wars Squadrons? If it wasn't for VR, I'd probably not be particularly interested; I'd love a modern TIE Fighter, but I'm sure this will be more arcadey and more multiplayer-focused.
The idea of sitting in the cockpit of an X-Wing or a TIE Fighter in VR, though? Count me in! Even if the game itself might be middling, the VR aspect definitely appeals a lot - though I do hope it won't be arcadey to quite the same extent as, say, the recentish Battlefront games, with power-ups and the like.
Really, though, I just want them to do a remake of X-Wing, TIE Fighter and possibly X-Wing Alliance that lets you play the entire game in VR. I mean, just because it'll never happen doesn't mean I shouldn't want it!
woah on 21/6/2020 at 03:48
I also wouldn't really care if it wasn't in VR, but I'm cautiously optimistic. Graphics look great but I want to see how it actually plays--definitely looks like it's targeted at casual gamers instead of something that has some depth. However I'm glad they're supporting HOTAS controls instead of relying on floating virtual flight controls. I like motion controllers but IMO they simply don't give you enough feedback (at least not yet anyways) to substitute for flight sticks. I do appreciate games like VTOL VR and Vox Machinae nonetheness but not enough to tolerate them past the novelty stage. OTOH I do like using motion controllers to interact with cockpits. I'd just prefer it if such games would allow you to use the joysticks on the actual motion controllers for flight control when grabbing the in-cockpit virtual flight controls. The game should look really good on the Reverb G2.
Some other general thoughts on VR for discussion:
* When it comes to what makes VR interesting as a new medium, its interaction affordances are at least as significant as the immersive visual/auditory aspects of VR. VR offers a more general interface to virtual worlds and as the hardware advances this interface will become more and more expressive. The visuals happen to be necessary for giving the user the correct perspective for making such interactions workable. There are of course gimmicky uses of VR inputs, but a well designed VR interaction model that is intuitive, that has "depth", that has significance to gameplay, and that gives the player a space master something can be extremely rewarding. Motion controller feedback is a huge bottleneck right now.
* I think the most significant hardware advances for VR will be variable focus, wireless, eyetracking, advanced haptic/force feedback, and improved ergonomic comfort (through weight reduction, reduced gasket pressure, etc etc). OTOH, a little more pixel density and FOV beyond what we have now (my current point of reference is the valve index) and pixel density/FOV won't concern me very much anymore. I'm getting really tired of not being able to focus correctly.
* Half-Life Alyx is an incredible game. Quite mechanically constrained but much of what it does do it does very well. Like the hand interactions, throwing, environmental interactions, and the physics--nothing else really compares. I really hope they're working on a Source 2 SDK because giving developers access to HLA's baseline of VR specific features could result in a really innovative modding scene, perhaps comparable to the goldsrc and Source 1 eras. But as it stands right now, indie devs really struggle to implement a baseline comparable to HLA because designing good VR interaction is extremely difficult and time consuming.
* I'm convinced that more devs should focus on seated options. While I think a standing option is necessary as a more natural baseline, I also simply can't imagine gamers standing up to play games every night and the leg strain with VR has always been a complaint among my friends. At the end of the day they are tired and want to relax. Thankfully seated setups work fine for VR provided you have the right setup: the most optimal seated setup I've found is a wireless headset with a swiveling stool that has a small seat, no arm rests, and a narrow backrest (or none at all). Wireless is really critical for this though as otherwise the cord wraps around the cylinder of the stool. Stance/height changes are best controlled through the dominant hand's joystick.
* I think that while VR offers a very promising future for gaming, it's still super early. Among my friends, only the more hardcore/enthusiast types still use their headsets (myself included) after 6 months or so. I find that right now there are so many discomforts, limitations, frictions, and clunkiness that a lot of users drop off after some time. However, despite this very few call it a gimmick or deny the cool things they've experienced--they just don't want to use it very much. As those issues are addressed, I think more and more people will stick around. E.g. I happen to think variable focus is one of those critical technologies and I doubt we'll see that before gen 3 headsets (that are probably like 7 or 8 years away).
* Thief would be incredible in VR, provided it has well developed interactions (HLA would actually provide a good baseline...). Might need to wait for microled displays for decent black levels however.
Renault on 28/7/2020 at 19:57
Interesting to read through the early parts of this thread now. I'm guessing most would agree that VR still hasn't caught on as much as was expected, although it is still a WIP.
That said, I decided to give it a whirl, and ordered a Playstation VR setup (Don't really want to shell out the cash required for a PC version, yet...). I noticed there is almost zero reference to PSVR in this thread. I realize it's an inferior version of VR, but does anyone here have any experience with it, or opinions/thoughts? Also, any reccos on what games to start out with would be great. The bundle I bought includes Blood & Truth and some VR golf game.
Although I've really wanted to try it out for a while now, it was recent sessions playing No Man's Sky that finally pushed me over the edge on getting one. Other games I'm eyeing up are Astro Bot Rescue Mission, Moss, Superhot, and Farpoint (which are all on sale right now).
henke on 28/7/2020 at 21:49
BEAT SABER, BABYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!
Also I'm jealous of you getting to play Astro Bot. That's one PSVR sclusie that looks really good.
woah on 29/7/2020 at 02:52
Quote Posted by Brethren
Interesting to read through the early parts of this thread now. I'm guessing most would agree that VR still hasn't caught on as much as was expected, although it is still a WIP.
That said, I decided to give it a whirl, and ordered a Playstation VR setup (Don't really want to shell out the cash required for a PC version, yet...). I noticed there is almost zero reference to PSVR in this thread. I realize it's an inferior version of VR, but does anyone here have any experience with it, or opinions/thoughts? Also, any reccos on what games to start out with would be great. The bundle I bought includes Blood & Truth and some VR golf game.
Although I've really wanted to try it out for a while now, it was recent sessions playing No Man's Sky that finally pushed me over the edge on getting one. Other games I'm eyeing up are Astro Bot Rescue Mission, Moss, Superhot, and Farpoint (which are all on sale right now).
I've only tried PSVR briefly but the thing that's really holding back that system is the tracking and controllers, to the extent that it's not very representative of "modern" VR. However it does have some nice games for gamepad controls (RE7, Wipeout, Astrobot). The headset is low resolution but you can kind of get used to that over a period--there are much bigger problems with all current VR visuals like the inability to focus correctly. PSVR2 will probably be announced next year with actually decent motion controllers and hopefully wireless (using 802.11ay). I would start with games that don't involve smooth locomotion (Beat Saber, Superhot, Audica, Batman: Arkham VR) and just get your eyes used to the fixed focus. Then try something like RE7 VR to get your "VR Legs"--only play up until you start to feet uncomfortable and then stop for several hours to a day, repeating this at least once a day. Consistency is key but *never* play until you're actually sick as that could ruin VR for you.
I can't comment on PSVR-specific games but I personally found No Man's Sky VR to be one of the worst examples of good VR games (with the exception of cockpit games, most flat -> VR ports are pretty terrible to be honest). The controls are clunky, the UIs and inventory management are uncomfortable without the ability to focus, and the interactions really don't take advantage of VR in any meaningful way. All you really get out of it is the "wow" factor / immersion factor of the "true" first person perspective VR gives you and TBH with current hardware limitations that has just as many problems as it has affordances. What makes VR interesting (to me at least) is how it's a much more general interface to a virtual world that is converging on something more akin to the way humans naturally interact with the real world.
I think you're quite right about VR "not catching on" to the extent that people expected, but I will say that anyone that was expecting a new medium to catch on within 4 years just had totally unrealistic expectations to begin with. Granted, there was a ton of hype being generated by FB and the like that gave consumers/devs this expectation--that mainstream adoption was just around the corner. The hardware *is* amazing, but it's still too uncomfortable, limited, clunky, and high friction for regular usage and wider audiences. The software is immature and not just in terms of the scale/scope that many consumers expect (that only large devs can bring) but also with respect to just knowing how to take advantage of the medium. New methods of interaction need to be designed from the ground up, which requires innovation and risk--something that is not the forte of large developers.
For all of these reasons I think it could take another decade to really take off. New mediums like this almost always start in the high end with an enthusiast audience and then gradually expand over time as all aspects of the experience are improved. People just forget or are unaware of all of the hard work behind it. Where VR is right now reminds me of the early days of PC gaming. Granted, I've seen a ton of improvement over the past 4 years. The hardware has improved quite a bit in terms of comfort, fidelity, and friction. Indie devs have figured out a ton of cool mechanics and ways to utilize the hardware. Development tools keep getting better. There are solutions in the works for basically ever major VR hardware problem except simulator sickness. Just going to take a while.
Thirith on 9/8/2020 at 09:15
So this is very, very cool: X-Wing Alliance in VR.
[video=youtube;tfPkDmqa0XE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfPkDmqa0XE[/video]
I'm taking a break from VR while the temperatures are high, but I will want to check this out.
P.S.: Talking of (potentially) cool things: I do hope that they'll also bring Hitman VR to PC, because if it's done well it could be pretty damn nice.
woah on 19/8/2020 at 16:52
(
https://www.bluesnews.com/s/214009/oculus-adding-facebook-account-requirement) . Basically from now on new users will need to login with a FB account to use their headset. Existing users have another 2 years or so to continue using their non-FB associated Oculus accounts. Sure, you can create a fake FB account but if it looks suspicious they will suspend your account and then you'll presumably lose access to your games. E.g. this has happened to several people I do tech work for: FB flags their account and locks it up until they validate their identity with e.g. a matching driver's license. They were just regular accounts with their real names.
I mean everyone had to see this coming. But I'll take it a step further: the research, subsidized hardware and content investments are all just a means to having complete control over a platform through which they can collect data on you. Long term what they're going to do is use eyetracking, BCI, the inside-out tracking cameras, etc etc + AI analysis to monitor all of your virtual and real world (through AR) interactions, associate that data with your real identity, and sell the data to the highest bidders, who will then utilize these insights to influence the masses to their liking. The "highest bidders" here consist of the most powerful entities on the planet so it's not difficult to see where this is headed. No need for authoritarian dictators for this to go south.
Renault on 19/8/2020 at 17:14
Seems like a bad move PR wise, as Facebook doesn't exactly have the best image these days. You'd almost think they'd want to keep FB and Oculus as two separate brands.
Shadowcat on 20/8/2020 at 08:06
The recent self-contained Oculus headsets sounded quite good. I'm glad I didn't buy one.