crunchy on 6/10/2009 at 03:24
I have a question about American Football that I hope someone can explain.
Recently in Oz a new tv station has started that is totally dedicated to sport. They have begun broadcasting several games of Gridiron each week and I love watching it. However, there is something about intentional grounding I don't understand.
If a Quarterback remains in the pocket and throws the ball away, not anywhere near a receiver, then they are penalised for intentional grounding. This I understand.
What I don't understand is when it is late in the game and a team is running out of time and has no timeouts left, a Quarterback will intentionally spike the ball into the ground as soon as it is snapped to stop the clock. Why is this not intentional grounding as well?
I hope someone can shed some light.
mudi on 6/10/2009 at 03:54
Since I don't have a better explanation, I'd say it's just always been an accepted play. I guess you could argue that several eligible receivers are 'near' where the ball is deadened.
demagogue on 6/10/2009 at 04:56
I'm sure there's some official rule that's right and we can just be making stuff up. But my understanding is that the rules distinguish whether the ball leaves the QB with his arm in forward (upfield) motion or not. If it's forward motion of the arm releasing the ball, it's a pass that can be intentional grounding in the situation you mentioned. If it's not, then it's not a pass (so not eligible for int'l grounding) and might either this kind of spike or a side/backwards lateral.
It sort of reminds me of the rule of when the ball is knocked out of the QB's hands. If there's forward motion in the arm at the time, then it counts as an incomplete pass. If his arm isn't moving forward yet, then it actually counts as a fumble and the ball is still live and can be picked up. That kind of distinction is what I was thinking about.
crunchy on 6/10/2009 at 05:35
Quote Posted by demagogue
If it's forward motion of the arm releasing the ball, it's a pass that can be intentional grounding in the situation you mentioned. If it's not, then it's not a pass
If that is true then it raises two other points. If it is not a pass then they cannot stop the clock for an incomplete pass. More importantly if it is not a pass then it must be a fumble. Which means the clock not only keeps running but the defence are eligible to recover the ball.
SithLord2001 on 6/10/2009 at 05:57
Ok well here is the official thing from the NFL for intentional grounding "Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion."
Now since when the quarterback spikes the ball he is not facing an imminent loss of yardage by the defense, and since there are usually 3 running backs around him in that formation, and they are considered eligible receivers, and since the ball does move forward when thrown at the ground, it is an incomplete pass, thus stopping the clock (that is my interpretation of it anyways)
ercles on 6/10/2009 at 10:49
I think the rule is worded specifically to allow the ball to be spiked, because without it, every time a team wants to stop the clock without burning a timeout, they'd simply run a play where the QB gets the hell out of the pocket quickly, and throws a ball out of bounds (and also past the line of scrimmage, the other factor that determines intentional grounding). This kind of shit is just the tip of the iceberg with NFL, trying to figure out rulings surrounding possession after a catch is where it get's really messy.
heywood on 6/10/2009 at 13:32
The intentional grounding rule was created because quarterbacks were just spiking the ball to avoid a sack. Note the intentional grounding rule only applies when the quarterback is "in the pocket" which is generally interpreted to mean he's between the offensive tackles. If the quarterback is outside the pocket, then they won't call an intentional grounding penalty as long as he throws it past the line of scrimmage. He still can't spike it, but if he's out of the pocket then the "realistic chance of completion" doesn't apply. The reason for the rule difference depending on whether the quarterback is in the pocket or out is that it's assumed that if he's out of the pocket then he's scrambling and not facing an imminent sack. The only time spiking the ball is accepted is when it's done to stop the clock.
Possession after the catch is confusing because they keep changing the rules. I've seen some bad calls this year because of it.
PotatoGuy on 6/10/2009 at 15:05
Quote Posted by crunchy
I have a question about American Football...
Here I decided I'll stay out of this thread. Have fun people.
mudi on 6/10/2009 at 15:07
That post was very useful.
(So is this one.)
gunsmoke on 6/10/2009 at 16:51
Quote Posted by PotatoGuy
Here I decided I'll stay out of this thread. Have fun people.
I feel that way about soccer. Even slower than baseball. I like baseball, but shit, soccer is even more yawn inducing than even it.
So, see ya' later. Football is awesome. Especially the NCAA Division 1-A, and specifically the Big 10 with me favoring the OSU Buckeyes.
