Sceadugenga1987 on 26/7/2013 at 09:56
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Come on now, it's not an insult. It's unfortunate and short sighted, but an insult?
There are a number of factors that will determine if they release an editor and not one of them has anything to do with trying to offend the fan community or not.
That's well put. I think it'd be an insult if they try to enforce copyright protection as was done to the subtitle translating website. I hope they can't devise a restriction from letting the engine run custom maps. I don't know the technical or legal ins and outs, but, try to presume the developers are also thief fans, and you'll find it easier to tolerate shortcomings.
onetruekeeper on 26/7/2013 at 10:30
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Come on now, it's not an insult. It's unfortunate and short sighted, but an insult?
There are a number of factors that will determine if they release an editor and not one of them has anything to do with trying to offend the fan community or not.
Since the previous three Thief games had editors, if EM does not release a editor for Thief 4 then I would be very curious as to what were those "factors" that led to their decision not to. And I wasn't implying that EM was insulting the Thief community but if their decision to release a editor is a "no" then it could be looked at as a snub which also could be interpreted as a insult by some.
onetruekeeper on 26/7/2013 at 10:36
Quote Posted by Sceadugenga1987
That's well put. I think it'd be an insult if they try to enforce copyright protection as was done to the subtitle translating website. I hope they can't devise a restriction from letting the engine run custom maps. I don't know the technical or legal ins and outs, but, try to presume the developers are also thief fans, and you'll find it easier to tolerate shortcomings.
That is just it. We DO NOT know for sure if the developers are Thief fans or not. I guess right now we just have to take their word for it. But in the final analysis I believe how the new Thief turns out would give us some idea.
SubJeff on 26/7/2013 at 10:39
There is nothing curious about it at all.
Licensing issues with the UnReal engine, the editor may consist of disparate tools that have different legal issues, the entire thing may need a lot of work to modify and package for use on a home computer, etc, etc.
Remember that we had to campaign for both DromEd and the Thief 3 editor, and that when the Thief 3 editor finally arrived many people (including one half of the team that ran the thiefpetition campaign ;) ) played with the editor and went "meh, this is a mess, TDM is much better".
Unless they know they can legally and easily provide an editor that the fans will be able to use easily, thus making the whole thing worth it, they won't.
Corsair on 26/7/2013 at 10:48
-Current game mechanics & designs cater to current gen gamers for max potential profit.
-Further profit can be created through DLC releases and micro transactions.
-Releasing an editor will compete against these potential profits.
-There is a lot of evidence shown in the demos that the hardcore and long-time fans are being ignored so this NuThi4f will garner as many sales as possible.
I won't personally be getting this game and from the looks of it, it's going to be one of those games people play once and then let it collect dust or go sell/return it.
TL;DR - An editor won't be in EM's best interest, interests which seem solely focused on potential profits, not replayability.
SubJeff on 26/7/2013 at 11:08
Quote:
An editor won't be in EM's best interest, interests which seem solely focused on potential profits, not replayability.
I totally disagree.
If they could do it easily and without legal complications then, as I've previously said:
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
If I were to be in charge I'd have a long term strategy. Make the best Thief game we can with tools that we can give to the fans, a la Dromed. If the game is good it will do well. If the toolset it good FMs will be made regardless of whether the game was fantastic
as long as the mechanics are right.
Engage with the fans, talk to them, discuss the canon, discuss the FMs. Even run dev sponsored FM competitions with prizes - you may discover talent that you want to recruit (its happened before), but at the very least the entire engagement would mean that Thief is in the gamer psyche - its there discussed on games sites like JoyStiq, Destructoid, Kotaku.
The engagement would also allow for cross fertilisation of ideas - fans suggesting stuff to the devs, the devs explaining how stuff can be implemented in the toolkit. And ultimately when it comes to DLC the devs could implement suggested stuff or even just nods to fans and particular FMS.
And that goes double for sequels - the incorporation of stuff that the fans thought would be really cool but which isn't possible, yet, with the current tools.
Of course all of this idea sharing would have to come with a caveat that any info given is free and there are no IP issues.
Given the highly prolific FM output here even so many years after Thief 1 and 2 were released, the evidence of high fan engagement as seen in TDM, I think the developers are missing a trick and a half here. Done right they could end up with a crazy hardcore of fans and massive constant publicity machine.
The short sightedness is... sad.
Corsair on 26/7/2013 at 11:44
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I totally disagree.
If they could do it easily and without legal complications then, as I've previously said:
As I'm sure many would agree, from what we've seen so far the game mechanics need some tweaks and the engagement that we want EM to partake in has not been happening. Nevertheless, I would love to see an editor released, but I'm not holding my breath for it.
As you stated before, the short sightedness is... sad.
eepcat on 26/7/2013 at 17:05
Quote Posted by Vivian
how on earth does one 'gravitate around' something.
Proper use in a sentence:
"I arrived at the board meeting only to find my pants were gravitating around me."
- eep!
webe123 on 27/7/2013 at 19:00
At this point....I do not really think the folks at Eidos CARE about the fans or what they think...or an editor.....or anything...they just want to get this horrible game released to the public as soon as possible.
They have pretty much already alienated most of the thief fan community, so what would be the point of an editor?
Like I have stated before, I simply hope this thing gets released and it bombs big time.
Maybe it will send a message to Eidos and the Thief community can go back to making great FM's of the games we already love and this "thing" can be forgotten!
TTK12G3 on 28/7/2013 at 17:04
Quote Posted by webe123
Like I have stated before, I simply hope this thing gets released and it bombs big time.
Someone is setting up themselves for misery...:p
