Kurgan on 30/6/2013 at 08:25
I'd say it's very unlikely they'd release an editor for one obvious reason: DLC. If we're out here making our own FMs for this forthcoming abomination of code, it would undermine their ability to create their own FMs and sell them as DLC.
MensaLaureate on 30/6/2013 at 19:48
Come on, people. Businesses are not in the business of giving out things for free. Did anyone really think Eidos Montreal would release, allow, or condone fan missions?
If, perchance, there is something like DromEd, rest assured, it'll be Pay to Play.
Renzatic on 30/6/2013 at 21:11
Quote Posted by Kurgan
I'd say it's very unlikely they'd release an editor for one obvious reason: DLC. If we're out here making our own FMs for this forthcoming abomination of code, it would undermine their ability to create their
own FMs and sell them as DLC.
Abomination of code? What is EM making? The Antichrist virus or something?
The whole argument about editors being nixed in favor of DLC is a near fallacy based on nothing more than assumption and bitter feelings. Bethesda releases an editor for all their games, yet they still make tons off their DLC. Yeah, they're just one company among many, but you also have to factor in the cost of licensing, stabilizing, and releasing an editor. Some studios might not be able to do it even if they wanted to due to the middleware they've used, or it'd cost such a tremendous amount of money and time, they wouldn't think it's worth the effort.
demagogue on 30/6/2013 at 22:56
Yes I believe you need to be a big & long-established studio that developed its own engine without a lot of middleware to be able to release an editor, and big & long-established is exactly what EM isn't.
I've heard arguments on both sides with the DLC (FMs work with vs. against DLC) and haven't seen any conclusive evidence either way, but if it's a wash (you lose maybe as much as you gain either way) then I could imagine other factors being more important in the end.
Kurgan on 1/7/2013 at 05:43
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Abomination of code? What is EM making? The Antichrist virus or something?
Why, yes. Yes they are. :ebil:
Can't you hear the sinister music playing subtly in the background right now, or see that crow, silently watching you type from outside your window?
Thief's Creed is coming, and it wants our souls...
Judith on 1/7/2013 at 08:34
Yup, Bethesda knows that there's no DLC vs. fan works problem. Modders or map makers won't be on the same level in terms of production and quality, they don't have money or workforce at their disposal. Even if there are projects on a semi-professional level, they take a lot of time to make for one person or even a small team, so usually they're released months after the last DLC for given title. In terms of Thief community there would be absolutely no competition for next months or even years after the editor release because of the gigantic experience gap, e.g. in external modeling / sculpting / texturing apps, which is a must for making even basic custom content these days.
Again, my bet will be on problems with Epic licensing fees, since their software is expensive as hell. No wonder so many people switch to Unity these days.
SubJeff on 1/7/2013 at 11:03
The bonkers thing about it, if you really think about it, is that there are so many Thief fans still around partly (only partly, but still) due to the existence of the FM community.
If I were to be in charge I'd have a long term strategy. Make the best Thief game we can with tools that we can give to the fans, a la Dromed. If the game is good it will do well. If the toolset it good FMs will be made regardless of whether the game was fantastic as long as the mechanics are right.
Engage with the fans, talk to them, discuss the canon, discuss the FMs. Even run dev sponsored FM competitions with prizes - you may discover talent that you want to recruit (its happened before), but at the very least the entire engagement would mean that Thief is in the gamer psyche - its there discussed on games sites like JoyStiq, Destructoid, Kotaku.
The engagement would also allow for cross fertilisation of ideas - fans suggesting stuff to the devs, the devs explaining how stuff can be implemented in the toolkit. And ultimately when it comes to DLC the devs could implement suggested stuff or even just nods to fans and particular FMS.
And that goes double for sequels - the incorporation of stuff that the fans thought would be really cool but which isn't possible, yet, with the current tools.
Of course all of this idea sharing would have to come with a caveat that any info given is free and there are no IP issues.
Given the highly prolific FM output here even so many years after Thief 1 and 2 were released, the evidence of high fan engagement as seen in TDM, I think the developers are missing a trick and a half here. Done right they could end up with a crazy hardcore of fans and massive constant publicity machine.
The short sightedness is... sad.
pavlovscat on 1/7/2013 at 16:38
SE, they should hire you when they dump the latest guy in charge! :thumb:
('Cause you know they will dump him sooner or later. :p)
SubJeff on 2/7/2013 at 11:05
I thought that they might have done this with Thief 3 when it was on the way. I know there are more prolific map making communities for other games but nothing has the same flavour as the Thief FMs.
MensaLaureate on 2/7/2013 at 11:33
Here's something to think about..I've seen it happen several times before......
Now that Square Enix owns the Thief Franchise, I think it's a safe bet that they will be putting the Kabosh on Fan Missions. They own the rights, after all. In this 21st century of video gaming, someone needs to get paid. That is the entire reason Microsoft wanted to make you Pay to Play used games....they hated it when Gamestop and Blockbuster profited from all their hard work.
I'm quite sure we'll see something put into play in the coming years that will make it very hard on the producers of Thief Fan Missions. Don't scoff at that. People scoffed years ago when DRM was forming. People scoffed at activation codes and online registration and DLC. Mark my words, our precious fan missions are in their twilight years.