Gryzemuis on 19/2/2016 at 23:04
Quote Posted by zajazd
You watch Stalker and don't fall asleep?
Do you not at least get mad that the danger is never revealed at the end?
No.
No.
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I read that some of Stalker crew died of radiation during of after making the movie, if that is true it's such a shame they died for nothing. But I have to admit that I have seen one even more boring movie - Rise of Valhalla or something - but at least that movie was eyecandy.
You're nuts. Tarkovsky was famous for the beautiful shots he made. I had never heard of Valhalla Rising. And looking at Google images, I see nothing that is even slightly remarkable. Maybe you should watch Stalker again some day. On a day where you have nothing to do, all the time in the world, and just sit and watch and enjoy without expectations.
Or maybe the movie is just not for you. Some people prefer pizza over any other food. I guess that's fine.
zajazd on 20/2/2016 at 01:37
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
You're nuts. Tarkovsky was famous for the beautiful shots he made. I had never heard of Valhalla Rising. And looking at Google images, I see nothing that is even slightly remarkable. Maybe you should watch Stalker again some day. On a day where you have nothing to do, all the time in the world, and just sit and watch and enjoy without expectations.
The fact that you judge movies by their google images speaks for itself. Stalker is pretentious humanist jibberish with no substance and at snail speed. I grew up in soviet union so I get zero impressions of the settings and character mentality. The director had no idea where he was going with this movie and chose the pathetic easy way out at the end by involving god. The last bit of the movie where the female character emotionally says in camera that 'this is how we live' is a clear indication that this movie was meant for the western world audience who found everything about soviets exotic.
Gryzemuis on 20/2/2016 at 11:43
Quote Posted by zajazd
The fact that you judge movies by their google images speaks for itself.
Yep. It's one of the (many) ways to look at movies. What do you see on the screen ? That does not need to have anything to do with a story. Nor with acting. Or even special effects. And Tarkovsky is very good at that. The pictures he sometimes shows are exceptional. E.g. early in Stalker, there is a shot of a room filled with water. That shot moves slowly around the room. Only showing the room, the water, and what is lying on the bottom of the water, 20-30 centimeters under the surface. That shot takes 5 minutes. Maybe even more, I can't remember. I am sure 95% of audiences will find that very boring. But I loved it. Even when I was just 19 years old.
Film is a medium about pictures. I rather watch a movie without story but beautiful pictures, than watch a movie with a good story, but you can't see anything worthwile. (That's called soap-opera. You see them on TV every day).
Even though I have this opinion, I do understand where you are coming from. I loved Stalker. But Nostalghia was too much for me at the time. Maybe I watched it at a wrong time. When I was impatience, or tired, or had something else on my mind. I can't remember anything from Nostalghia. Just an overall memory. (Slow, incomprihensible, too much symbolism, too much religion or spirituality). But I'm gonna watch it again. I loved the clip that I saw in The Witness.
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Stalker is pretentious humanist jibberish with no substance and at snail speed. I grew up in soviet union so I get zero impressions of the settings and character mentality. The director had no idea where he was going with this movie and chose the pathetic easy way out at the end by involving god. The last bit of the movie where the female character emotionally says in camera that 'this is how we live' is a clear indication that this movie was meant for the western world audience who found everything about soviets exotic.
I am sure that the fact that you grew up in the USSR gives you a different perspective. I am aware, and even was at the time, that the movie does not reflect life in Russia. It was just a nice movie to watch. I loved the colors. (Even the lack of colors at the beginning). I loved the slow shots. I loved the fact that the movie did not try to impress a story or an opinion on you. And there was some mystery. The fact that the mystery wasn't solved in the end doesn't mean it was a bad movie.
Anyway, my point about Nostalghia and The Witness was exactly what we are talking about now. The majority of people consider Tarkovsky movies slow, boring, uninteresting, no story, no suspense, no nothing. You will not make yourself popular at parties when you start to talk about Tarkovsky. You will make enemies when you convince your friend to come watch a Tarkovsky-movie in the cinema ("You wasted 3 hours of my life, you cunt. I want them back !").
And then Jonathan Blow puts 15 minutes of the most boring, slowest, most pretentious Tarkovsky-movie in his game ! :) I can appreciate that.
Starker on 20/2/2016 at 12:32
Tarkovsky's movies are certainly not for everyone, especially with the long takes, the symbolism and whatnot, but just because they are not (easily) accessible to everyone doesn't make them pretentious or lacking in substance. Saying that something is pretentious is just a lazy way for people to dismiss something that they don't like.
qolelis on 12/7/2016 at 07:08
Aah, mmm, yeah, Tarkovsky, I feel like I should give him a second chance now that I'm at least a decade older and maybe more mature in my tastes (maybe) (it's on my to do list).
Anyway, I really enjoyed The Witness. Yes, I was frustrated at times, but that just made the reward so much greater whenever I cracked a new rule. I've only gotten the standard ending yet, though; I got stumped on the timed sequence of puzzles, and then I got busy with other stuff for a couple of months, so I'm not sure if I care to relearn the rules just to get the bonus ending (I never wrote them down, so I'm not sure if I remember them any more).
The puzzles were challenging and varied enough to keep my interest, and the environments were beautiful and thought-provoking, but I do think there could have been more focus on an actual story; as of now things felt kind of wasted and life-less (which was probably intended, but not entirely to my preference).
Discovering the rules is much like how scentific discovery is done: You observe a new, previously undefined, phenomenon and try to formulate a theory explaining it, then you test that theory and revise it if need be -- except that in The Witness we can take more of an engineer's approach ("if it works, then it's correct").
Starker on 13/7/2016 at 17:00
I've been playing it on and off in short bursts. I'm pretty sure I have found most of what there is to find in the game, but I still keep finding something new each time I return. Puzzle-wise, I'm at 522 +135 +6 and I've found all the audio logs, so the lake looks pretty busy right about now. Also, I've found a lot of "pareidolia" all around the island where if you line up stuff just right, they form some sort of a scene or image.
It's a game with lots of layers to it and there are lots of rewards for the observant and inquisitive mind. And it's done with a degree of subtlety. There are two moments in the game that I call Matrix moments that completely change your perception of the game world in the sense that once you've seen it, you can't unsee it. One is that there are line puzzles in the environment and the other is that the world is fake. And it's possible to complete the game without ever becoming aware of either of them.
qolelis on 19/7/2016 at 13:26
I just went back inside and more or less happened upon two more of those
nature patterns. After having run around a while without finding anything new, I felt like I had reached my limit there, so it was extra satisfying when I did find more.
I also briefly checked out the main puzzles and, although I didn't think I would, I actually seem to remember the rules, so I might give the
timed puzzle sequence a new go. Other than that, after enjoying around 70 hours (and 507 +104 +2) of this I feel like I won't find what's left no matter how much I try, so I think I might be done with this, but I'll probably return to it occasionally in case I run into something.
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Also, I've found a lot of
"pareidolia"I've found a few of those too; always nice.
Starker on 19/7/2016 at 22:35
Actually, there's a trick to finding a lot of the puzzles. The lake is actually a map of the island and the items in it correspond to various things.
The lanterns point to the lasers. Lit ones have been activated.
The waterlilies point to the audio logs. Open ones have been activated.
The triangular leaves point to the triangle puzzle panels. Submerged colourless ones have been solved.
The clams point to the movie activation keys. Open ones have been found.
The fountains point to the obelisks. Active ones have been completed.
And the obelisks themselves show the number and the direction of each environmental puzzle.
qolelis on 20/7/2016 at 06:07
Quote Posted by Starker
Actually, there's a trick to finding a lot of the puzzles. The
lake is actually a
map of the island and the items in it correspond to various things.
Aha, while I have actually noticed the second part, I never thought of the first, so thanks for pointing that out; I'll check it out and see what I can make of it. I also noticed that
each side of the black pillars
point in the general direction of the depicted puzzles, so I've been trying to use that when finding them. I'll save your other hints for later.
qolelis on 13/8/2016 at 16:18
I tried the timed sequence again today for an hour, and I am getting closer, but I'm still not there; the best I got was two puzzles left, and after that I quit, because I had to leave. I got lost in the labyrinth and had to run back and check the map (which I also realized what it was about). Then I got through, but had only seconds left to solve the last two(?) puzzles. I'm not sure if I'm getting better at it or if I'm just getting lucky with the puzzles, and get the ones where I can see the pattern almost immediately, just by repeating it over and over again, but eventually I should be able to get through.
