Ghostly Apparition on 18/10/2008 at 05:19
Quote Posted by Thief13x
The problem is you're spouting off once again (as Fett just proved) without the slightest clue as to what you're talking about.
The irony is that on the rare occasion that you arn't blubbering shit, I actully agree with you...
I really don't care if you think I'm spouting off or blubbeering shit or whatever insult you want to throw my way. Maybe if you cared to make a point yourself instead of capitalizing on someone elses point I might take you more seriously.
Quote Posted by fett
That's not my point. You said there was no biblical distinction between 'don't kill' and 'don't murder' which are two very different things because they are usually motivated by different sets of circumstances.
Shug - If you take the fact that most Christians believe that we're involved in the Middle-East to a) protect America and b) protect Israel (and they do), then they're not hypocrites for also being pro-life. The problem isn't hypocrisy, and neither is it (usually) ignorance of doctrine - you'd be surprised how many pastors have had to deal with this kill vs. murder bit because of the war in the last five years. The problem is their ignorance/denial of the government's motivation for the war, and their blind fear of what will happen if we pull out. The problem is with their worldview and politics, not their theology, and it's absolutely retarded how much neither of those things tend to inform the other in the typical bible reading congregation.
I was just actually thinking of the ten commandments. I actually haven't read the bible that thoroughly to actually make the distincttions you did.
I gave you that point. You're right.
I think to me the point is the republican party who uses pro-life stands to win elections and goes to war illegitimately for reasons that have nothing to do with defense of the country and mislead people to believe it is in defense of the country. That is huge hypocrisy in my view.
Scots Taffer on 18/10/2008 at 07:15
Quote Posted by demagogue
Well I wasn't surprised by it; I was just pointing it out.
Yeah, right. I wasn't attacking your review or anything. Stone irritates the fuck out of me though. Why spend your life making movies with political agendas if they are confused and vague?
Thief13x on 19/10/2008 at 01:08
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
I was just actually thinking of the ten commandments. I actually haven't read the bible that thoroughly to actually make the distincttions you did.
I gave you that point. You're right.
I think to me the point is the republican party who uses pro-life stands to win elections and goes to war illegitimately for reasons that have nothing to do with defense of the country and mislead people to believe it is in defense of the country. That is huge hypocrisy in my view.
Tell me ghostly..how many times HAVE you read the bible through in its entirety? you should learn to shut your mouth once in awhile, especially when you try lumping abortion and the iraq war into one barrel which you try and dump on everyone you think is a republican. Do you actually think you're the only one upset by the iraq war? do you seriously believe you are contributing to this thread by pointing out what America has known to be true for years regardless of political affiliation? You should read that article about thinking before you post...just in my opinion....carry on
BEAR on 19/10/2008 at 01:37
Quote Posted by fett
Yeah it does. It says literally, "Do no pre-meditated murder." It also goes on to make distinctions between war, self-defense, and capital punishment, etc including caveats for women, children, slaves, etc. It's also very specific about
how killing should be done in all the above scenarios.
That clears things up a lot. I always wondered about that. I gotta side with Ghostly on this one though, I seriously doubt that many christians are that knowledgable, as I've never heard anyone quote anything like that besides the 10 commandments. You gotta assume this is like a lot of things in life where people would be way to lazy/stupid to bother really understanding the bulk of the information and just memorize the 10 commandments and say "yeah yeah thou shalt not kill I got it".
Still though, pro-life is just as much of a misnomer as pro-abortion. These people show all the christian values of a fucking serial rapist sometimes.
Then again, when I thought about it, Christians have NEVER really been known for their christian values since the day after Jesus died. I know there are instances where their charities do good things (for instance the child I sponsor is probably through a christian charity), but most of them have a catch. All the way through history there are examples of this, they do want to help people but only as much as they want to spread their religion. The same thing is happening in Africa now. We'll give aids assistance, but only if they are pro abstinence (which is proven to not work fucking
at all), rather than being willing to help just to help them. It always furthers a fucking agenda. They'll build you a church but maybe you need more than a fucking church, self righteous assholes.
This is not to say they are any worse than any other religion, I think they are all equally hypocritical. Charity for the sake of charity is the only way to go, but you only get that from atheists, who I am convinced are actually better people in most cases.
Feel free to respond to me anyone, but it would probably be pointless because I'm in a hateful mood right now and probably will disagree with most of what I said later on.
fett on 19/10/2008 at 01:51
Quote Posted by BEAR
That clears things up a lot. I always wondered about that. I gotta side with Ghostly on this one though, I seriously doubt that many christians are that knowledgable, as I've never heard anyone quote anything like that besides the 10 commandments. You gotta assume this is like a lot of things in life where people would be way to lazy/stupid to bother really understanding the bulk of the information and just memorize the 10 commandments and say "yeah yeah thou shalt not kill I got it".
The ones who are teaching the average christian every Sunday understand the distinction very much - as I said, this has become a huge issue in recent years because so many people are criticizing the war, so the distinction is being made from the podium constantly these days.
Ghostly: You're aware that christian does not = republican, right? Just checking. ;)
BEAR on 19/10/2008 at 01:51
Quote Posted by fett
Yeah it does. It says literally, "Do no pre-meditated murder." It also goes on to make distinctions between war, self-defense, and capital punishment, etc including caveats for women, children, slaves, etc. It's also very specific about
how killing should be done in all the above scenarios.
That clears things up a lot. I always wondered about that. I gotta side with Ghostly on this one though, I seriously doubt that many christians are that knowledgable, as I've never heard anyone quote anything like that besides the 10 commandments. You gotta assume this is like a lot of things in life where people would be way to lazy/stupid to bother really understanding the bulk of the information and just memorize the 10 commandments and say "yeah yeah thou shalt not kill I got it".
Still though, pro-life is just as much of a misnomer as pro-abortion. These people show all the christian values of a fucking serial rapist sometimes.
Then again, when I thought about it, Christians have NEVER really been known for their christian values since the day after Jesus died. I know there are instances where their charities do good things (for instance the child I sponsor is probably through a christian charity), but most of them have a catch. All the way through history there are examples of this, they do want to help people but only as much as they want to spread their religion. The same thing is happening in Africa now. We'll give aids assistance, but only if they are pro abstinence (which is proven to not work fucking
at all), rather than being willing to help just to help them. It always furthers a fucking agenda. They'll build you a church but maybe you need more than a fucking church, self righteous assholes.
This is not to say they are any worse than any other religion, I think they are all equally hypocritical. Charity for the sake of charity is the only way to go, but you only get that from atheists, who I am convinced are actually better people in most cases.
Quote Posted by Thief13x
Tell me ghostly..how many times HAVE you read the bible through in its entirety? you should learn to shut your mouth once in awhile, especially when you try lumping abortion and the iraq war into one barrel which you try and dump on everyone you think is a republican. Do you actually think you're the only one upset by the iraq war? do you seriously believe you are contributing to this thread by pointing out what America has known to be true for years regardless of political affiliation? You should read that article about thinking before you post...just in my opinion....carry on
How many times have you? I didn't see you correcting him before fett. Anyone can just agree with someone after they've shown they are knowledgeable, I've never seen you correcting anyone else on the forums in biblical matters before, and Fett sets us strait fairly often.
Also what the Bible exactly says doesn't mean a fucking thing. Given the time differences between the old and new testaments, the disparities between all the different authors and time periods, the translations and changes made in the king james version, its safe to say that the exact wording doesn't mean jack shit. What matters is the way that it is portrayed and understood in general, and christian values for DAMN sure aren't understood as "only killing when someone is really asking for it". They call themselves pro-life, they consider themselves to be non-christian's moral betters, they profess to "christian values", and they are totally and utterly full of shit. They are also republicans, which go hand in hand with hypocrisy.
Think of all those hate filled republican rallies. I guaranfuckingtee you that 99% of those people were Christians who would consider themselves to be very moral people, while basically being just short of a violent mob (short because there weren't any nigger democrats nearby most likely).
These are the same cocksuckers that have pastors who tell their congregation that if they vote for the democrats they are going to hell. Yeah, real Christ like. Everyone knows Jesus was a fat white redneck from the Midwest. I've said it once and I'll say it 1000 more times. They would
kill Jesus if he came back EVER. If he didn't come back with such a spectacle that there was no QUESTION, if someone came back and said exactly what Christ said originally (at least what we think he said, if he even existed which in all likelihood he didn't) they would have him up on a cross in a day.
Feel free to respond to me anyone, but it would probably be pointless because I'm in a hateful mood right now and probably will disagree with most of what I said later on. Well, no, I totally agree with everything I just said more or less but I'm usually more rational, I feel like this at least 20% of the time or more.
Ghostly Apparition on 19/10/2008 at 04:03
Quote Posted by Thief13x
Tell me ghostly..how many times HAVE you read the bible through in its entirety? you should learn to shut your mouth once in awhile, especially when you try lumping abortion and the iraq war into one barrel which you try and dump on everyone you think is a republican. Do you actually think you're the only one upset by the iraq war? do you seriously believe you are contributing to this thread by pointing out what America has known to be true for years regardless of political affiliation? You should read that article about thinking before you post...just in my opinion....carry on
First of all, I never claimed to be all that knowledgeable about the bible.
Second, as I stated when I replied about the pro-life comment you made about the debate, I wasn't really replying to you necessarily. Just asking a rhetorical question about the hypocrisy of republicans who use pro-life as
a talking point to win elections while when they get elected are the pro-war party.
That said, I agree with everything Bear said in reply to you and I would like to add "shut your pie hole, I wasn't talking to you" and you can quote me on that.
btw: why are you getting upset about me dumping on Republicans?
I thought you were an Independent?
Inline Image:
http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c010.gif Fett: Yes I am aware that Christian doesn't always= Republican
I am actually a little sad that religion gets dragged into politics as much as it does. it wasn't meant to be this way, seperation of church and state and all that.
Thief13x on 19/10/2008 at 08:14
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
btw: why are you getting upset about me dumping on Republicans?
Because I have alot of freinds and people I know who are republican, most of which don't even believe in God. I think that this ridiculous stereotype must have come out of the 60's or something because my parents say the same thing, but it simply doesn't match up to reality. Atleast, not in the 21st century.
Quote Posted by BEAR
I seriously doubt that many christians are that knowledgable,
agreed, with the emphasis on 'most', which is why it pisses me off when people start judging others based on religious 'conviction'. Ironically, doing so highlights their ignorance of the bible' which specifically states numerous times not to judge others.
Quote Posted by BEAR
The same thing is happening in Africa now. We'll give aids assistance, but only if they are pro abstinence (which is proven to not work fucking
at all), rather than being willing to help just to help them. It always furthers a fucking agenda. They'll build you a church but maybe you need more than a fucking church, self righteous assholes.
I won't lie this is one of the stupidest things i've ever heard. It only follows that if you're going to pay to fix someone's mistake for them you would do so only while taking measures to ensure that it wouldn't happen again. Would you rather we didn't give aids assistance? because that's the only other reasonable alternative I see...or trying something else which is probably a good ideas since it's not working. But that sure as hell isn't an example of trying to further and agenda.
Quote Posted by BEAR
How many times have you? I didn't see you correcting him before fett. Anyone can just agree with someone after they've shown they are knowledgeable, I've never seen you correcting anyone else on the forums in biblical matters before, and Fett sets us strait fairly often.
ummm, ya thunk maybe I hadn't read it yet?
Beyond that, I don't like to debate religion because I realize that while I have read the bible through and continue to do so, I don't necessarily understand it well enough to preach, debate, or judge people by it. My interpretation is exactly just that.
Quote Posted by BEAR
Think of all those hate filled republican rallies. I guaranfuckingtee you that 99% of those people were Christians who would consider themselves to be very moral people, while basically being just short of a violent mob (short because there weren't any nigger democrats nearby most likely).
I really must, bask in this ignorance one last time before reminding you that as much as it may shock christian conservatives, there ARE christian democrats. I will go as far to say that most republicans I know arn't religious and never have been. I still have no fucking clue where that stereotype came from anyway!
Muzman on 19/10/2008 at 10:37
Although most people I know who've been around the 'Sates would contend that, comparatively speaking, the bit between canada and mexico is the bible belt (with a couple of not so religious rhinestones here and there).
I'm not sure whose argument this supports.
