Thief13x on 7/10/2008 at 18:42
Quote Posted by heywood
I brought it up because I'm hearing co-workers and family members say they're getting really sick of the election and don't want to follow it anymore.
They certainly arn't the only ones. The headline on CNN.com today was
Gloves come off on the campaign trail!....WAIT A MINUTE, WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU GETTING THIS INSIDER INFORMATION???
ugh, I'm just so sick of it all...ya know, I voted in the poll on cnn's website that asked how many people had decided who they were going to vote for in November...only 8% hadn't...
Starrfall on 7/10/2008 at 18:59
Quote Posted by heywood
And the ads from McCain I'm seeing on TV aren't as bad as the stuff Palin is saying on the stump. If all you knew of the campaign was from the TV ads, debates, and network news, you wouldn't see that much difference.
Maybe there's two thresholds here? The first defines how negative Obama can be before he starts turning voters that were on his side into apathetic non-voters. The second defines how negative McCain can be before he starts turning apathetic non-voters into anything but McCain voters.
I'm getting sick of the election too but I just can't look away!
The news is reporting Palin's stuff though, and there are already a few videos floating around.
Regardless I think you're probably right about there being more than one threshold.
edit: in-depth explanation of why McCain is dropping out of Michigan: (
http://www.freep.com/article/20081007/NEWS06/81007040/1118/rss)
BEAR on 7/10/2008 at 22:21
Its a train wreck, you have to watch.
Thief13x on 8/10/2008 at 01:53
haha! I love the folks who still imagine McCain can win. YEAH 8 YEARS MAY AS WELL BE 12 FUCKHEDS
jay pettitt on 8/10/2008 at 02:07
Most of the way through debate 3: McCain is an exceedingly slick snake oil salesman. Obama is doing the wrong thing by trying to respond tit for tat fashion.
McCain will be justified in claiming the win, but he came across as egotistical and unpleasant in the process. Obama just never really got going and languished in trying to respond to McCain's charges. McCain -2 : Obama -2.5
I think if you're undecided you're likely still undecided and didn't get much out of this evening.
Gambit on 8/10/2008 at 02:58
I couldn´t see it.
How was the debate ?
Who seemed more prepared for the economic crisis ?
Where there too many personal attacks ?
BEAR on 8/10/2008 at 03:02
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
McCain will be justified in claiming the win, but he came across as egotistical and unpleasant in the process. Obama just never really got going and languished in trying to respond to McCain's charges. McCain -2 : Obama -2.5
I disagree.
I think that Obama did a good job connecting with people and presenting his positions. I think he did a good job of debunking McCain's attempts to misrepresent him, which is not easy when there was no real back and forth apparatus to the debate structure. He was much more in command I thought than he was in the previous debate. He managed to attack McCain's positions and records without sounding derisive.
I see this somewhat in the same way as the vice presidential debate. There were no knock out punches, nobody made a huge mistake, but Obama looked much more positive and in control, and I have a feeling that will be mirrored in polling even if political analysts disagree.
Obama did spend a little too much time respinning his previous statements, but at this point there is so much misinformation about his campaign, he really has to do that. He has to keep hammering his tax policies, because people are still being fed the "he'll raise your taxes he'll raise your taxes" lines. I think Obama would prefer to talk about something else, but he's got to counter his critics when he can.
I was pleased that the personal attacks were minimal (or non existent really). I think this has to do with the fact that it was a pretty personal setting, and I think the McCain campaign read the situation right in seeing that the types of attacks that they've been laying out (using Palin as a mouthpiece, I hesitate to say she's laying them out because she really isn't) were going to do McCain no good, and that Obama would pick him apart should he try. McCain overall did a so-so job, he is totally unable to match Obama for poise and clarity and warmth, but he didn't make any huge obvious failings (though he did continue to harp on some things that have been disproven by fact checkers from every news organization since the first time he said them).
We'll have to wait and see, but I expect Obama's lead in the polls to increase as a result.
Ko0K on 8/10/2008 at 03:13
They traded some sharp barbs, but I thought Obama still should've responded when McCain tapped on his shoulder at the end of the debate, regardless as to how phony the gesture was. That was a bit disappointing, kind of in the same way it was disappointing to see Obama tell Clinton that she was "likable enough." I would like to think it's not a big deal, but apparently it's enough to leave a bit of an aftertaste.
Starrfall on 8/10/2008 at 03:24
McCain probably shouldn't run with this "steady hand on the tiller" line.
I mean he crashed like three planes while NOT in combat.
jay pettitt on 8/10/2008 at 03:31
oh meow!
Quote Posted by "Bear"
I disagree
Perhaps, the mud is being slung thick and fast at the moment. I'd hope most people were wise to the fact that the mud is just mud by now and I wonder if Obama couldn't afford to spend less time responding to individual charges during every single question. Obama did get a few good moments in; he answered very well the question about how the $700bn bailout package might benefit the ordinary person and I think he spoke well on health care (though I'm not sure how much appetite there is for that in the US). I think he answered some questions badly however- on climate change he was defensive but doesn't need to be, he could have talked about taking a positive lead on the international negotiations; McCain doesn't have an answer for that. There were a few other things I just thought 'meh?' because he was putting too much emphasis on trying not to concede a few cheap points to McCain rather than scoring big which he is quite capable of doing.
Maybe I should revise my score to -2 a piece, it's just that I expect better from Obama. I really don't think it was a great debate by any measure. All that said of course Obama has the lead in the polls, if he resorts to some damage limitation who am I to argue.
Something I found out today is that Obama is in the middle of giving up smoking. I suppose he's keeping busy which might help, but I'd have thought he might pick a less stressful period.
