BEAR on 29/8/2008 at 20:52
Quote Posted by heywood
Wow. I've been lurking here until now, but I can't resist responding to that. Choosing a president based on their tone and their speeches is stupid. They tell us very little, if anything, about how a person will govern. In fact, most of the typical things Americans use to choose a president are pretty stupid: speeches that the candidates don't even write, rehearsed sound bites delivered in debates, negative TV ads, media buzz.
You can cross your fingers, hope, and pray that Obama will be effective but I won't. After seeing how GWB turned out, I'm not prepared to vote for another lightweight. Hell, even Bill Clinton took a full term to put together a well functioning administration with capable people in his cabinet. Like Biden said, the presidency is no place for on the job training (paraphrasing).
What more do I want? I want a proven leader with executive experience who is pragmatic and cooperative, who is guided by the ideals and principles this nation was founded on but at the same time not blinded by them, and whose sense of duty is stronger than their personal loyalties and political ambitions. Maybe Colin Powell.
There was a time when I could have voted for McCain despite his lack of executive experience. But that was before he sold out, and before he started showing hints of impending senility. So count me in the "we're doomed" camp.
Agreed with Stitch about that, I don't mean you go entirely by that, but that is a LOT of what you have to go on.
Hahaha, after GWB you wont vote for Obama? Do us a favor and lurk more, jesus. I can understand you're "leap of faith" idea, but I think you undervalue history and background by a lot.
Also you'd feel better about Powell after the whole Antrax at the UN deal? Generally I have a pretty high level distrust of anyone who's been in the current administration.
The_Raven on 29/8/2008 at 21:09
Quote Posted by BEAR
Also laugh at "pro-life" only referring to abortion and not actually saving/not taking lives.
Ha, nobody deserves to have a drill shoved through their head more than pro-lifers*.
*Ok, so there is probably some people who are more deserving of that honor; however, pro-lifers are pretty far up my list.
demagogue on 29/8/2008 at 21:22
Holy dogshit, McCain's best attempt at topping the political event of the century is choosing the recent mayor and PTA President of Wasilla, Alaska as his running mate!? Is this for fucking real?
... The biggest controversy about her, mind you, being her desire to fire her ex-brother-in-law from the state police -- who gives a fuck whether it's true or not -- a FUCKING ALASKA STATE POLICE OFFICER WHO "ILLEGALLY SHOT A MOOSE" ... If that's the biggest potential scandal you can muster ... National-caliber politicians ought to elicit bigger claims of scandal than that because they do bigger things than micro-manage moose shootings! And her best qualifications are her "executive experience" (?!) and her missing penis. What about Kay Baily Hutchinson? Or dozens of other Republican women who have done something on a national scale, or been executives over states with populations greater than my modest home city of Ft Worth (700K) and economies greater than Ecuador's (no offense), which Alaska isn't?
This is almost as surreal as when Bush nominated his cleaning lady to the Supreme Court. Seriously, this has transcended being an absolute laughable joke.
Morte on 29/8/2008 at 21:32
Obama actually writes a fair chunk of his speeches, doesn't he?
Stitch on 29/8/2008 at 21:49
Yep.
Also: you can tell a lot about a candidate by the campaign he/she runs. A presidential campaign is essentially a dress rehearsal for the real thing in miniature, with similar challenges such as selecting and managing staff, making and communicating crucial decisions, and processing and navigating the various crises that pop up. By that measure, so far Obama is clearly the most capable candidate.
BlueNinja on 29/8/2008 at 22:23
Quote Posted by heywood
What more do I want? I want a proven leader with executive experience who is pragmatic and cooperative, who is guided by the ideals and principles this nation was founded on but at the same time not blinded by them, and whose sense of duty is stronger than their personal loyalties and political ambitions. Maybe Colin Powell.
The only name you have is someone who has repeatedly and publically said, "*bleep* that job, I'm not doing it."
So when you find this mythical leader, let the rest of us know. I wanna get a picture of him as he rides into DC on his unicorn.
heretic on 29/8/2008 at 22:50
Quote Posted by demagogue
...If that's the biggest potential scandal you can muster ... National-caliber politicians ought to elicit bigger claims of scandal than that because they do bigger things than micro-manage moose shootings!
Palin made waves a few years back (apparently not large enough) by resigning from the Oil and Gas Conservation Commision due to what she'd been describing as a lack of ethics regarding her fellow Republicans. She had been loudly complaining about various violations and conflicts of interest leading up to her resignation in '04.
BEAR on 29/8/2008 at 23:38
Quote Posted by Stitch
Yep.
Also: you can tell a lot about a candidate by the campaign he/she runs. A presidential campaign is essentially a dress rehearsal for the real thing in miniature, with similar challenges such as selecting and managing staff, making and communicating crucial decisions, and processing and navigating the various crises that pop up. By that measure, so far Obama is clearly the most capable candidate.
That was another point I had meant to bring up. I'll admit I was cynical at the beginning of the primaries, but that's a big part of what the primaries do, they hurl you into the fire and force you to adapt or die. I was originally more for Edwards (don't ask me why, it just took me a while to warm to Obama), but the primaries really molded him into as perfect a candidate as I ever expect to see in my lifetime.
Obama did a spectacular job of running his campaign and like Stitch mentioned, and proved a lot of leadership skills to have done so. Such experience cant be ignored. To have run the most exciting and prolific campaigns of this century is no small feat, but all he gets for it is being labeled a celebrity as if being able to inspire millions is somehow a bad thing.
Also: Everyone should be required to watch Obama's speech (
http://gallery1.demconvention.com/) here. Just as a matter of history, Obama's speech was incredible and contained very little liberal ranting. If any American can watch that and not be a little bit moved, then I really and truely pity you (Even Pat Buchanan was raving about it).
Ghostly Apparition on 29/8/2008 at 23:39
Regarding McCain pinking Palin for his vp pick.
Is he insane? No really, is he? After all the bitching about Obamas lack of experience he picks someone with even less...far less. Lessee her resume includes PTA, mayor of a small town in Alaska, and less than 2 years as governor
of the state. oh yeah, She won a beauty pageant.
She's pro life(anti abortion) pro gun, and to top it off she has a 4 month old
downs syndrome infant. She recently asked an interviewer what exactly did the Vice-President actually do all day? (ARE YOU KIDDING ME?)
This is who he picks to run the country if he keels over from a heart attack or something while in office? A distinct possibility at his age.
If anyone was questioning his judgment to be President. You just got your answer. He absolutely does not.
rachel on 29/8/2008 at 23:59
I've followed the campaign from abroad on and off and was kind of rooting for Obama (which, I'll admit, was just for his being Democrat). After watching his acceptance speech though, I'm genuinely impressed, it was great. He was great there.
