BEAR on 28/8/2008 at 15:32
Quote Posted by theBlackman
Neither has any idea of addressing the size of government with plans to reduce it to a controllable level, and in fact, are proposing gross enlargement of it with every "Program for the public good" they offer.
I've known quite a few people who've had the "small government" opinion, and while I didn't always agree, I've found I typically tend to like such individuals. They often are highly productive, skilled people who expect a lot of themselves and even more of others, which in and of itself is not a bad thing (these are just the people I've personally known like this).
So perhaps you can help clarify something for me. You say "small government" as if that state of government is simply an accepted truth as the way it should be. Can you actually give me some examples to show that this is how it should be? Now, of course we all see a lot of pork going out and none of us like it, but can you actually point me to a country that has thrived like this for any amount of time? Things like social security (oh god the word social is right there!) has done more to bring the levels of poverty down than anything else in America. Is this an example of what you feel is "big government"? And if so, can you please explain to me how your idea is better? You worry about the changes Obama will make as if they will rip our country asunder, but somehow drastically reducing the size of government and possibly stopping aid to millions who depend on it would be somehow safer?
You sound like a libertarian (forgive me if I'm wrong), and most libertarians I've known have has their own idea about how everything should be run, and they are ALL different. Not only that, but I can't really see any proof they can point to that their idea would work at all, as none of them can actually agree what "they" think. In my mind its just independent people who wish they could live in a simpler time where they could live by their own terms and were not expected to help maintain weaker individuals. Sorry but that's not the world we live in, no matter how much you wish it was.
Quote Posted by theBlackman
My initial assessment stands. Both are a bad choice. It's like pick what you think is the lesser of two evils, based on your life experience, but realize that both choices are potentially dangerous to YOUR life and well-being.
And I feel my own assessment totally stands! Funny innit. I cant really argue with you there though, I just hope my side has the chance to prove you wrong about that.
Quote Posted by theBlackman
As for the tactics, both candidates are bad-mouthing each other like two kids in a kindergarten class instead of addressing issues of real value.
Again, I really must protest. You cant honestly think hey are equal in this, can you? You cant possibly compare the 3rd party (yeah right) attacks against Obama, and the near minutely condemnations from McCain for every little thing Obama compares to the really quite legitimate comparisons Obama makes between McCain and Bush, can you? Its like a bully using a kids fist to punch himself in the face and the teacher punishing them both for fighting. There certainly are 3rd party organizations on Obamas sided (like moveon.org, and I love the quote John Stewart made about them: Moveon.org - 10 years of making even people who agree with you cringe.), but I hardly think they compare to the right wing hit-squads like Jerome Corsi who is beginning a great tradition of writing books full of lies every 4 years to slander the democratic candidate simply to keep them out of office.
Maybe you really don't like Obama's politics, but surely you can fucking see this is not an equal affair. I'm fully willing to accept being wrong in this but you'll have to point me to some really vicious ads by Obama and unprovoked hostility, because in everything I've seen this election (and I've kept up more with this one than any one previously), there hasn't been.
Stitch on 28/8/2008 at 17:53
Why are you even trying, BEAR? The original post is your garden variety kitchen sink political rant that betrays a paucity of knowledge regarding the details of this particular election and its candidates.
TheBlackman is shooting crayons out of a cannon. Wave at him and move on to the people paying attention.
D'Juhn Keep on 28/8/2008 at 18:05
BULL CRAP!
Morte on 29/8/2008 at 16:27
What are people's thoughts on McCain's pick for vice-president? Like most of Republican party these days, it seems to me it's mostly about electioneering rather than governing. Given McCain's age, it doesn't seem clever to make someone with zero experience of washington or international politics a stroke away from the presidency.
But hey, she's a woman and might win over some angry Hillary supporters.
Starrfall on 29/8/2008 at 16:29
^^Celebrated the choice of Palin by donating fitty bucks to Obama. Also lol so much for the experience argument.
Quote Posted by WAREAGLE
Either one, we're fucked.
oh noes we all die!
heretic on 29/8/2008 at 17:13
Quote Posted by Morte
What are people's thoughts on McCain's pick for vice-president? But hey, she's a woman and might win over some angry Hillary supporters.
She's a woman and might win over some angry Hillary supporters pretty much sums it up IMO. Anyways, at this point does it really matter?
When even (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0Fru4dZLGA) Pat Buchanan is gushing over Obama's speech you know something is in the wind.
Sypha Nadon on 29/8/2008 at 17:38
Just when I thought that McCain's campaign couldn't possibly reek more of desperation, this comes along. I like how he hyped up the fact that she was in the PTA. Now that's experience that you can't buy!
a flower in hell on 29/8/2008 at 17:51
It's pretty sad when the people who are being groomed to lead our country aren't as mature as my five-year-old autistic cousin.
Join me in welcoming the oncoming nuclear missiles.
june gloom on 29/8/2008 at 18:00
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
Isn't it preferable to have an inexperienced but very vocal idealist as President but backed up with a cabinet of experienced and wise vets of the political business - I'm sure a President is only as good as his advisors and basically if Obama has an idealistic view of how America needs to change (which it does) then why is having that viewpoint a bad thing if he can have his idealism bolstered by true understanding of what's necessary to do etc.
Surely the whole problem is that these non idealist Presidents are already totally cynical and burnt out shells of humanity before they even step into the role, having been bought and paid for by major corps, and hence their entire administration stems from this lack of political idealism?
Inexperienced leader surrounded by a bunch of old guys who claim to know what they're doing? I've
seen this movie, and so has
everyone else.
god dammit i have been up for 21 hours i will focus on the rest of this thread later
Starrfall on 29/8/2008 at 18:23
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Inexperienced leader
Like Sarah Palin
