The US political debacle

paloalto90 on 16/9/2008 at 00:31

The quote reminds me of Norman Lear who tried to embody conservatism in Archie Bunker.Condescending and sometimes pitying the poor ignorant working man.We liberals can understand his fear of change.

Obamas quote is an oversimplification from someone who has never been there.

My grandmother who passed away recently at 103 would have been one of these.She came out of the Ozarks to central valley california.She was devoted to Jesus more than anyone I know.Her motto was simply to help others which she did every day of her life.She clung to her religion out of love not fear.Was she ignorant about a lot of things.Yep.Was she an intellectual?Nope.Simply devoted to someone she thought embodied love.

BEAR on 16/9/2008 at 01:21

Quote Posted by Thief13x

Whatever you call "That"... it's about as good as anything else that comes from the slums of Chicago... since we're in the mood here Barack

A) You're "paraphrasing", to be generous, was a lot more divisive than Obama's actual statement.

B) He's absolutely right. I know the people he talks about, and I love them, but its the truth. They don't live in the world that exists, they don't live in the global world that we live in. They vote about issues that aren't issues, and don't see the real issues. I would say that they are, in some ways, better people (from my own viewpoint), but they need to come out of their world a little and look around, lest they become even more irrelevant to the world at large (which is hard for me, because I hardly like to see them change as much as they have).

Is this their fault? Of course not, no more than its the fault of a cosmopolitan new yorker that they are as they are. What Obama was doing was, in fact, being more kind to these people than the Republicans that constantly pander for their vote, whilst ignoring their needs. He made an attempt, as he did in his speech on racisim after the Rev. Wright controversy, to be level and intelligent without pandering or skirting around the truth. He did what I (sometimes) try to do by rejecting the thought that you can diminish people, when it is better to familiarize oneself with the actualities of the situation. He was saying to his on base, "You cant just say they are stupid hicks", which is the truth. Its the same for all the people that piss me off.

Of all that he has done, that is what I respect perhaps more than anything. And of course, the response was much the same as the response after his racism speech. So many failed to see it for what it was, because we're so used to being fed our comfortable American Politics style bullshit.

Starrfall on 16/9/2008 at 01:39

Quote Posted by paloalto90

My grandmother who passed away recently at 103 would have been one of these.She came out of the Ozarks to central valley california.She was devoted to Jesus more than anyone I know.Her motto was simply to help others which she did every day of her life.She clung to her religion out of love not fear.Was she ignorant about a lot of things.Yep.Was she an intellectual?Nope.Simply devoted to someone she thought embodied love.

Obama is also religious and spent a lot of time trying to help others (you know, that community organizer stuff.) Your grandmother probably would have liked him.

Unless she was reactionary single-issue voter who clung to an idea of religion over everything else - then the quote describes her perfectly, no matter how virtuous she might have been.

Either way it's funny to watch people whine about how Obama doesn't respect them while the McCain and Palin are constantly lying through their teeth to them in order to get their votes. That's real respect.

Also this sounds familiar but I just can't quite place it, someone help me out here:

"A campaign spokesman says Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin won't speak with an investigator hired by lawmakers to look into the firing of her public safety commissioner.
McCain campaign spokesman Ed O'Callaghan told a news conference Monday that the governor, the Republican nominee for vice president, will not cooperate as long as the investigation "remains tainted.""
(http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/09/15/politics/p163317D16.DTL)

paloalto90 on 16/9/2008 at 02:27

I actually don't know what Obama did as an organizer.Details?
I know he worked for a group called ACORN.

Ghostly Apparition on 16/9/2008 at 02:29

It sounds a lot like Harriet Meirs, Karl Rove etc. refuseing to respond to congressional subpoenas.

Starrfall on 16/9/2008 at 03:22

Quote Posted by paloalto90

I actually don't know what Obama did as an organizer.Details?

Is there a reason you aren't looking yourself? You could try starting with something basic like wikipedia and working from there.

Thief13x on 16/9/2008 at 05:11

Okay, I agree with you (Bear) and Starr to a certain extent, but no matter how I look at it this is exactly what I get from his speech (correct me if I'm wrong)

1) Pennsylvanians are bitter and frusterated
2) We express our frusteration by:
-- a) clinging to guns
-- b) clinging to religion
-- c) disliking people who have different beliefs (I love you Starr!:cheeky:)
-- d) Objecting to an immigrant presence
-- e) Objecting to a trade presence

If I have interpreted correctly, then this is my response

1) I've been alive way too short to be bitter, but I am quite frusterated about today's current political/economic landscape (because I'm from PA?:confused: )

2)
-- a) I don't own a gun,
-- b) I do hold my religion close because it's a necessity, not because of frusteration
-- c) The only people I dislike are those who won't think (right or left)
-- d) I object only to illegal immigrants as most Americans do (the left and right only differ about how to solve the problem)
-- e) I strongly oppose a flat global economy, not trade itself

now, the problem I have with Obama's speech is I feel it is an attempt to explain a bunch of people's viewpoints simply as the product of frusteration and bitterness, and to basically say that "don't worry, I know better than you Pennsylvanians...I know what your problem is"

That to me, is NOT the way I want politics to be handled, or to be represented in Washington, as simply an unneccesary product of frusteration that can't think past my bitterness (woah! that line is the next emo song folks;))

Tonamel on 16/9/2008 at 06:24

This campaign has been so filled with bile, gross inaccuracies, lies, etc etc, that I find myself being unable to trust any news source I come across. Especially since people seem to like sending me links to Daily Kos and Drudge Report. Most of my political knowledge these days comes from (http://www.factcheck.org) FactCheck.org, and more recently (http://www.politifact.com/) Politifact.

But I don't really want to get my info from fact checkers. I want to get it from journalists who actually do due diligence in their articles, and present them in a clear, concise, non-venomous way.

Anymore, that seems like an inconceivably high standard, but that might just be because my corner of the internet is exclusionary to such things. Does nonpartisan news exist these days? People who will write about how something is not only good, but also about how it isn't.

I don't want to be told to like or hate something. I want to be presented with a choice.

BEAR on 16/9/2008 at 11:28

Quote Posted by Thief13x

Its not surprising that what he said might not count for every Pennsylvanian, and very likely not college educated ones.

If he had said the same thing about North Carolinian's, people would probably be equally pissed, and it would be equally inaccurate in cases (jesus look at me), but it would hit right on the mark for a LOT of people I know. His major mistake was not really differentiating, but clearly you cant lump every person in a state together and expect it to hold up.

Ghostly Apparition on 16/9/2008 at 19:04

Quote Posted by Tonamel

Maybe try BBC news
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/americas/2008/vote_usa_2008/default.stm)