The US political debacle

heywood on 6/9/2008 at 22:51

Quote Posted by howie

Thats just it. I don't know when that recording was made (?). He sounds young in the recording so I'm not even sure if he was a republican or democrat at the time. Reagan was a actor first, a democrat, then after a severe brain injury became a Republican.

According to the poster of the video, it was 1961. I think he switched parties to support Goldwater in 1964. So he would still have been a Democrat at the time. From the way he talked, it seemed his position was based on the fear of encroaching socialism. 1961 was post-McCarthy yet anti-communist sentiment was still pretty strong. Even JFK ran on a hawkish anti-communist platform.

zombe on 6/9/2008 at 23:44

This dragging-back-and-forth with health care and %ts and other important issues reminded me something:

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY)

Wondering ... when will we eventually get it.

Dark-Star on 7/9/2008 at 01:18

Wow. Quite an experience reading through all 13 previous pages.

This whole issue alternately exhausts me, depresses me and drives me up the wall. Every time I see one of those two suits I am more so convinced that the USA is headed for a seriously dystopian future in my lifetime.

Although usually I side with the Republicans I shudder at the thought of McSame being elected. For while kicking tail on two terrorist-run countries is a good thing, such a victory is rather hollow when our own house is in shambles morally and financially. :tsktsk: Eight more years of that and it's Depression 2.0 for us.

Obama is even worse. The level of fawning over him both by the media and average people has gone to just plain disturbing. "The Messiah"? WTH?! :weird: Besides a Muslim background and socialist views, that little slip-of-the-tongue moment about clinging to guns and religion gave us a peek into his arrogant mind.

But you know what's the absolute WORST part of all this?

The utter inability of anyone (that I have met in RL) to even considervoting for a different party. It's infuriating. Even Ron Paul is passed off as a tinfoil-hat wierdo. Everyone I've talked to about the election in RL and most people online still focus on voting for the lesser of two evils.

Until this attitude changes...all the thinking folk can do is hope (lol) and pray for someone halfway decent to appear in one of the Big Two.

Otherwise - we're screwed. Simple as that. We. Are. Screwed.

heretic on 7/9/2008 at 01:40

Quote Posted by Dark-Star

The utter inability of anyone (that I have met in RL) to even considervoting for a different party. It's infuriating. Even Ron Paul is passed off as a tinfoil-hat wierdo. Everyone I've talked to about the election in RL and most people online still focus on voting for the lesser of two evils.

Sad but true, which is why our two major parties have never been more alike then they are today. What else can ever come from those who are willing to appeal to all and be loyal to none in order to succeed?

Even worse in my book are the folks that accuse the principled voters who vote with their hearts and minds of "wasting their vote". I can at least see where strategic voters are coming from, but they shouldn't judge those who refuse to be bilked yet again so quickly.

These folks are often the same sad sacks that blame one of either parties for all of our country's problems.

SD on 7/9/2008 at 02:27

Quote Posted by Dark-Star

Besides a Muslim background and socialist views, that little slip-of-the-tongue moment about clinging to guns and religion gave us a peek into his arrogant mind.

I keep hearing about Obama's "socialist" views, but I've yet to actually see much in the way of that. Does he actually have any socialist views, or do people in the States just not understand what socialism is?

Oh, and he was spot on about people clinging to guns, religion and xenophobia. That's why people got so pissed off - because Obama was dangerously close to the truth. Who gives a shit if it sounded elitist - I want the most powerful man in the world to be an intelligent man who knows he's smarter than everyone else. Especially after 8 years of being ruled by inbred hick fuckwits.

Quote Posted by heretic

our two major parties have never been more alike then they are today.

Abortion rights, gay rights, foreign policy, tax policy, health policy, trade policy... I could go on, but these are areas where the two candidates differ substantially from each other.

Perhaps you'd like to list the areas where Obama and McCain are "alike"?

SD on 7/9/2008 at 03:30

Bil Maher cracks me up at the best of times, but he's excelled himself with this article:

Quote:

Republicans, stop calling Obama elitist
Because the real reason you don't like him is that he's smarter than you.

Sept. 5, 2008 | New Rule: Republicans need to stop saying Barack Obama is an elitist, or looks down on rural people, and just admit you don't like him because of something he can't help, something that's a result of the way he was born. Admit it, you're not voting for him because he's smarter than you.

In her acceptance speech, Gov. Sarah Palin accused Obama of using his run for the White House as a "journey of personal discovery" -- this from the lady who just spent 10 minutes of her speech introducing her family -- Track, Trig, Bristol, Piper -- for a minute there I thought she was calling in an airstrike.

Karl Rove described Obama as "the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini, and making snide comments about everyone who passes by." Unlike George Bush, who's the guy at the country club who makes snide comments, and then passes out. Now this characterization, of course, was something Mr. Rove just completely pulled out of his bulbous, gelatinous ass, but remember this is America, a land where people believe anything they hear. One of McCain's ads casts Obama as "the one," implying he thinks he's the Messiah. Good, maybe he can raise McCain from the dead.

It doesn't matter to Karl Rove that his country club characterization is fictitious, it's the role that Obama must play if the party of plutocrats is going to win over the little guy. Over and over at this convention we heard about the new put-upon victim in our society, the person in America, like Sarah Palin, who's constantly mocked because they're from a ... small town! Governor Yup Yup's got 'em all riled up about being disrespected.

Barack Obama can't help it if he's a magna cum laude Harvard grad and you're a Wal-Mart shopper who resurfaces driveways with your brother-in-law. Americans are so narcissistic that our candidates have to be just like us. That's why George Bush is president. And that's where the McCain camp gets its campaign strategy: Paint Obama as cocky and arrogant and wait for America to vote him off, like the black guy in every reality show. A black president? Half of Pennsylvania isn't ready for black quarterbacks. Forget Obama, they think Will Smith needs to be taken down a peg.

And finally: As for "country first," you know who's putting country first? I am, by supporting Obama, because a victory this fall for the McCain-Mooseburger ticket would make my job in the next four years very, very easy.

heretic on 7/9/2008 at 03:43

Quote Posted by SD

Instead of focusing on the various campaign promises of the current figureheads in question, focus on what the parties tend to actually acomplish once in office.

SD on 7/9/2008 at 03:57

Quote Posted by heretic

Instead of focusing on the various campaign promises of the current figureheads in question, focus on what the parties tend to actually acomplish once in office.

Oh, this sort of thing you mean:

Inline Image:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/DannyClein/Funneh/meet-john-mccain.jpg

So you have a choice between a budget deficit and a budget surplus. Sure, that's a difficult one...

heretic on 7/9/2008 at 04:04

That's a rather one-sided affair, but you're getting warmer.

elkston on 7/9/2008 at 05:00

Quote Posted by Dark-Star

Obama is even worse. The level of fawning over him both by the media and average people has gone to just plain disturbing. "The Messiah"? WTH?! :weird: Besides a Muslim background and socialist views, .

Obama is NOT a Muslim.
-------------------
(http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp)

(http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/christian)
--------------------

In fact, his public appearance at Rick Warren's Saddleback Church reveals that he is a much more committed Christian than John McCain. His answers revelead a deeper understanding of Christianity than McCain's rote, evading remarks (and YES, its obvious he knew the questions and Obama did not).

The most telling answer was when the host asked, "Does evil exist, and how should we deal with it?".

McCain quickly says we should defeat it. Then he goes on to promise he'll follow Osama Bin Laden to the Gates of Hell and vows to "win" the Iraq War.

McCain on Evil: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JhbEjPNAqs)

Obama says that Evil exists in our streets, in those who wish to destroy us, and even in our homes. He said that we must CONFRONT evil, but that man himself will never truly defeat all evil. Only God/Jesus will, yet we can be "soldiers" and assist him.

Obama on Evil: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2TaGxB1n-U)

It was Obama's answer that was inline with Christian theology. It showed humility before God, where McCain's was the gung-ho and arrogant response, which showed no insight into Christianity whatsoever.

The media by and large thought Obama's performance at Saddleback was too cerebral and long winded, lacking the quick soundbites or punch of McCain's animated performance. Many failed to recognize that this was NOT a debate. Rather, it was meant to be two separate 1 on 1 interviews in front of an auidence.

But what it truly reveals is that Obama took the event as a serious forum to talk about what his *Christian* faith means to him, whereas McCain shamelessly used the opportunity to give his stump speech in front of the audience (and often not truly answering the hosts questions).

Which man really understands the Bible and what it means to be a Christian and which one is just a Christian for political convenience?

I don't tell you this to argue that our next President needs to be deeply religious -- only to refute your claim that Obama has "Muslim background".

As for the socialist bit, read this LONG article from New Yorker about Obama's rise in Chicago. Bottom line: Obama is FAR from radical. He is a pragmatist with left-of-center views that ultimately wants to get things done.

(http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=all)

[And SD answered the "arrogant" claim just fine, so I'll leave that alone]