Starrfall on 27/8/2008 at 14:51
Quote Posted by SD
How about we do more to help unproductive people be productive? First class education and healthcare for all. Two birds killed with one stone there.
This is america son we don't take kindly to that kind of talk round here
Rogue Keeper on 27/8/2008 at 15:03
Quote Posted by ZymeAddict
It's funny that you should say that, because the end of civilization as we know it is exactly what European countries (and to a slightly lesser extent, Canada, Australia, and the US) are facing. With birthrates hovering at 1.5 children per woman or lower (replacement level is at least 2.1), while the rate among immigrants is many times that, western countries are likely going to be facing quite a bit of change over this century.
The lack of "mystical" personal responsibility you spoke of has had quite an influence on this situation, in my opinion.
True, Europeans don't breed as much as they should.
But it's calming to know that it's personal responsibility in form of unpleasant rate of teen pregnancies, what makes American population growth stable.
Unless a space rock or deadly virus wipes us out, there will be no easy end to this civilization. Only change.
Morte on 27/8/2008 at 15:29
Quote Posted by BEAR
@OP
The "They're all crooks!" argument usually comes from someone too stupid or lazy to make a decent argument.
Another sign of cleverness is shouting about how politics is all rubbish, actively avoiding it and then being upset when things don't go the way you'd like them to.
BEAR on 27/8/2008 at 15:32
To be honest I'm guilty of using the statement myself when trying to avoid getting into a political argument with someone I know is incapable of having one (like my grandmother) who I don't want to verbally berate because they make me cookies, but that doesn't apply in most cases. That is the only case in which it is appropriate.
heretic on 27/8/2008 at 16:24
No doubt. JibJab has been on it for years.
raevol on 27/8/2008 at 21:18
Quote Posted by Thirith
You know that not all the people who are currently unproductive are drug addicts, right? Or lazy people who won't be productive, no matter what? To use your metaphor, it sounds like you're advocating not leading the horse to water at all because some horses won't drink. What's better: leading the horses to water and having 50%, 60%, 70% drink, or giving up on those horses altogether?
The way I see it, there's water laying about everywhere, free for the drinking, but people still insist on being pandered to and reassured that they're doing nothing wrong. Keep reading for more details.
Quote Posted by BEAR
I cant claim to know anything about you, but the only people who I've ever heard say this personally have been upper middle-class white people who've never really had to struggle in their lives. Maybe that isn't you, just saying. There are a lot of uptight self-rightous fucks out there who would take 100% of the credit for being born into a moderatly (or very) wealthy home and would lay 100% of the blame at the feet of those who were not. These are the same delusional people who believe 100% in free will. Also all statistics support drug treatment as being more effective than drug enforcement, so basically you are just being an uptight prick who would rather pay more to have cops busting heads than to actually fight the problem.
If england could implement universal healthcare after WW2 then the richest nation in the world can fucking do
something. You'd think the nationalist cocksuckers out there would hate playing 30-somthingth fiddle to the europeans, I thought we were better than everyone else? They can do what we cant?
The experience I call on is watching upper middle class white high-school graduates waste their lives away on drugs, living 9-10 people in a 2 bedroom apartment full of dirty dishes and unwashed clothes, and feeling that this is completely acceptable.
Also, have you tried to get healthcare in Britain? How was your experience?
Matthew on 27/8/2008 at 22:25
Quote Posted by raevol
Also, have you tried to get healthcare in Britain? How was your experience?
Pretty damn good every time, thanks.
D'Juhn Keep on 27/8/2008 at 23:10
Yeah, personally I can't complain about healthcare in the UK. If I want to see a doctor it's free and I don't have to wait (though this probably varies a lot with different practices) and the few times I've been to hospital it's been good treatment.
demagogue on 27/8/2008 at 23:20
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
I'll take Goldwater over pretty much every option we've had for the past 70 years please.
I was talking about the choice, not the man. The most popular president in modern times had just been assassinated, an unelected president took office, I think the country was in way too much trauma to deal with a
third president in 12 months. It was no surprise he had close to the lowest popular vote ever. (Goldwater himself said if Abraham Lincoln had come back to life to campaign for him, it wouldn't have helped his chances).
But speaking of the man, considering that America had over 58,000 casualties in the Vietnam war and another 300,000 wounded after LBJ's build-up, and that Goldwater was considerably more militant than LBJ and ready to go into China, his victory would have very likely been paid for in oil-tankers of blood (and for what, in hindsight, we can clearly see would have been unnecessary). Seriously, consider a choice where LBJ is the "peace" candidate!
Put him in different circumstances it changes the equation a lot, but then that's never a luxury we have in politics...
