Rogue Keeper on 3/9/2008 at 13:20
Quote Posted by heretic
...and her daughter got knocked up too oh lawd!
Quote Posted by BR796164
But it's calming to know that it's personal responsibility in form of unpleasant rate of teen pregnancies, what makes American population growth stable.
:idea:
Perhaps we Soc-Euros should take example from good-mannered and well educated conservative girls, raised in TRUE WESTERN VALUES.
rachel on 3/9/2008 at 13:53
Quote Posted by heywood
On a related note, sometimes it's hard for Americans like me to figure out whether our allies want US hegemony or not. So many world leaders say they are sick of US interventionism and militarism, but then look to the US to lead on solving every conflict and crisis and make the majority contribution to any multilateral force.
The European Union could have counterbalanced that influence, unfortunately nowadays it's only a shadow of what it could have been and a corruption of its founders' vision. And these idiots in Brussels can't find anything better to do than accept new countries instead of fixing the problems at hand.
Not that the people isn't to blame, mind you. The Constitutional referendum debacle was used to exploit nationalistic interests and fears, and they followed like sheep. A real shame. :nono:
Rogue Keeper on 3/9/2008 at 14:24
Well, at least our eurosceptical Cons were overjoyed that people of Ireland refused Lisbon Treaty and they praised them as saviors of the remnants of European freedom from Brussels oppression.
Now I am pro-unified Europe and all, but I think it's in every European citizens interest to keep the Brussles authorities from growing into bureaucratic monster.
Well it is big enough as it is...
Another big weakness of the EU is to accept solid and unified stance on the field of international diplomacy - the Russia/Georgia situation is the last example.
There is little hope for this to change as long as it will consist of 20+ nations. If there is a role which would suit the EU well, it will be role of a diplomatic moderator of disputes between other powers.
TafferLing on 3/9/2008 at 15:09
Quote Posted by BR796164
Well, at least our eurosceptical Cons were overjoyed that people of Ireland refused Lisbon Treaty and they praised them as saviors of the remnants of European freedom from Brussels oppression.
Now I am pro-unified Europe and all, but I think it's in every European citizens interest to keep the Brussles authorities from growing into bureaucratic monster.
Well, good job on shooting down a treaty which would have cut a fair bit of bureaucracy then?
My brain farts everytime I read "OMGBrusselsoppression", when Ireland is one of the major beneficiaries of EU fundings...
Rogue Keeper on 3/9/2008 at 15:37
That's the point, I bet most Irish people didn't even read it, but how many commoners are into reading X pages long legal mishmash? That thing is not to be understood by commoners.
Frankly said I didn't read it either, but in my country it's been ratified by the parliament.
Ask the cons about their issues, I'm just translating their feelings.
But I KNOW there is bureau for this next to bureau for that next to bureau for everything else in Brussels, all issuing new norms and directives nearly every day.
demagogue on 3/9/2008 at 16:43
I thought the Rep Convention last night went better than expected. It's starting to look like a Party trying to get its identity back as a Party, beyond Bush.
They never brought the house down.
Bush was embarrassingly perfunctory as usual. His wife's matching style made me wonder if they actually talk like that at home.
Thompson threw in some good punches, finally...
Lieberman's speech was a little surreal, being a Democrat and all. He wasn't speaking to the audience anyway, but to tv land. He got people to actually cheer for some of Clinton's accomplishments! (the idea being McCain is more like Clinton than Obama in having a solid record)
But Thompson and Lieberman both hit on what highlights McCain, IMO ... He's the guy that's been in line for President since 1996 and has the 20+ years experience in the game. They look skeptically on the whole "flash in the pan" phenomenon ... Presidents that come out of obscurity straight into the big time, Bush, Obama, they couldn't imply JFK but also him ... these are the types of Presidents that make dumb decisions. At least they aren't tested enough for us to know whether they will or won't, and the rush of popularity obscures it.
Obama is a little different since, in the other cases somebody else sparked the flash (e.g., the father), and Obama has inherent qualifications to be a good decision maker ... although his race and background do play a role in his flash, as well as his charisma. But like Lieberman basically said, I'm sure he will be a great leader in another 10 years. Right now, he couldn't stand toe-to-toe with McCain on playing the D.C. system if you actually looked at the record. Also, McCain is the bi-partisan guy who has friends on both sides; Obama is only going to be playing to 1/2 the crowd.
It touched on things about Obama that I've been worried about, but they never really nailed the case for it, and I don't see it changing the momentum towards the Republicans. There just wasn't enough steam.
Quote Posted by BR796164
That's the point, I bet most Irish people didn't even read it, but how many commoners are into reading X pages long legal mishmash? That thing is not to be understood by commoners.
According to my EU Law course, most Irish didn't understand what the constitution or EU is about. An EU lawyer went there to find out why Irish weren't bringing cases to the ECJ and figured out that Irish lawyers just didn't know that individuals could sue directly under EU law and get a remedy. So many cases were just sliding by because they weren't recognized as cases. Once they understood the mechanics of it, of course they're ready to take advantage of it like everybody else; they'd be dumb not to. Then my prof said this is the context you can understand some of their resistance to the constitution.
Matthew on 3/9/2008 at 16:57
Was Obama not very keen on cross-party working himself though?
demagogue on 3/9/2008 at 17:07
Are you asking in his rhetoric or in his record?
In his rhetoric, they all say that. But yes, he's talked about it. The election will be won by independents, so it has to be part of any winning campaign.
In his (short) record, there isn't any indication he's a bi-partisan player. But to be fair, he hasn't been in the Senate long enough to make friends on the R side; it's usually only seniors that can take that role.
It leaves a question mark what he'll do as President.
BTW, GW Bush ran on a platform of being bi-partisan ("compassionate conservatism" was his theme), and he actually had a record for it as Tx governor, but as President he threw it out pretty quickly (after 9/11, etc). Only his education plan survived of it, and that's had really blah results.
Starrfall on 3/9/2008 at 17:38
Quote Posted by demagogue
In his (short) record, there isn't any indication he's a bi-partisan player. But to be fair, he hasn't been in the Senate long enough to make friends on the R side; it's usually only seniors that can take that role.
That's a giant pile of shit and you should be embarrassed as hell that you fell for it.
Here's one example to get you and everyone else started: (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Funding_Accountability_and_Transparency_Act_of_2006)
Here's the other one I can think of off the top of my head: (
http://lugar.senate.gov/press/record.cfm?id=278019)
You'll notice that McCain was a co-sponser of the first, so he is very aware of Obama's bipartisan efforts. There's even fucking (
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-3077) follow-up legislation. Anytime the McCain campaign (including Joe Lieberman) tells you that there is no evidence that Obama has ever reached across party lines THEY ARE LYING
Matthew on 3/9/2008 at 17:47
See, I thought I'd read that somewhere else.
