heywood on 30/8/2008 at 14:16
Quote Posted by Morte
Obama actually writes a fair chunk of his speeches, doesn't he?
Quote Posted by Stitch
Yep.
Also: you can tell a lot about a candidate by the campaign he/she runs. A presidential campaign is essentially a dress rehearsal for the real thing in miniature, with similar challenges such as selecting and managing staff, making and communicating crucial decisions, and processing and navigating the various crises that pop up. By that measure, so far Obama is clearly the most capable candidate.
No, it means he is advised by the most capable campaigners. Number one being David Axlerod, who is a fucking political genius. Axlerod is the man who gave the Obama campaign its direction, its tone, its themes, its talking points, etc. How do I know this? Because here in Boston, we saw a preview of the Obama campaign 2 years ago when David Axlerod was running Deval Patrick's campaign for governor. The similarities between the two campaigns are uncanny, and not just because Obama and Patrick are both bright young black lawyers who came out of nowhere to defeat tough female opponents. Both campaigns shared the same tone & themes. And some of Obama's talking points and speech material was lifted straight from Patrick's material (Clinton made some hay from this in the primaries). Patrick, by the way, had everybody swooning during the campaign, but turned out to be a bumbling fool in office.
Now, it's possible that Obama may make the right choices for his cabinet and come to grips with the executive branch quickly. That didn't happen with GWB, it didn't happen with Clinton, and I'm skeptical that a Washington newbie can do better. Especially considering some of the people Obama chose to associate with before getting into national politics (e.g. Resko, Ayers, Wright). Maybe he's a shrewd politician who was just using these people while they could help him and dumping them when they couldn't, or maybe his judgment is flawed and he just got lucky in hooking up with Axlerod. I don't know the answer, but I'm not inclined to gamble against experience and history just because the man can deliver a good speech.
Quote Posted by BlueNinja
The only name you have is someone who has repeatedly and publically said, "*bleep* that job, I'm not doing it."
So when you find this mythical leader, let the rest of us know. I wanna get a picture of him as he rides into DC on his unicorn.
Yeah, yeah, I know. Unfortunately, national politics is a dirty sport that either corrupts or turns away most of the people I would want. What bugs me though, is how voters reward people for how they play the political game rather than their accomplishments. Congress has a NINE percent approval rating, yet the fucking sheep will forgive or forget it all as soon as the TV ads start flying, electing them all once again.
heywood on 30/8/2008 at 15:03
Quote Posted by demagogue
That still doesn't explain why
her (as opposed to someone like KB Hutchinson). My thinking is ... she's best known for 3 things, and all of them fit into place at just the right time. Aside from military affairs, McCain's two passions in politics are anti-corruption (campaign finance, etc.) and cutting pork. And Palin's original claim to fame was exactly these two things. And the third thing is her being known for energy policy when gas prices are high.
I thought he had to make a choice between someone who would help energize Christian conservatives to turn out the vote for him, and someone who would pull in Clinton supporters and independents. If he had done the latter, I would have strongly considered voting for him. To me, picking Palin is a cop-out. He's trying to thread the needle and appeal to both groups at the same time. I suspect she will do neither. Just like when GHWB picked Dan Quayle, Palin's pick only makes me question McCain's judgment. I'm not impressed that he would pick somebody who is so obviously not qualified for even the VP job, let alone the presidency.
My pick would have been Christine Todd Whitman, the former NJ governor and EPA head. She's a moderate Republican from the Northeast who co-founded an energy policy advocacy organization, is a partner in an environmental & energy consulting firm, and sits on a couple of corporate boards. She's competent, nationally known, speaks out against the Bush administration, appeals to women voters, and she helps round out the ticket on domestic policy issues. But Whitman is pro-choice and there's still enough single issue voters in the Republican party to make her choice a gamble too.
Quote Posted by ravoll
3) The retirement ages rise : In Germanys social system, one of the rules for retirement at 65 is that you have worked for at least 40 years.If not then you will not recieve full benefits,if thereare any left to be recieved.
Because of the fact that people are indeed living longer and healthier,the Retirement age will most likely be raised to 67 here shortly.This also makes it difficult for a younger person just entering the job market to find employment,because the job place he needs is filled 2 years longer.
( A dark note on retirement:Pay into the system for 40 years,or until you´re 67 ,retire,draw your retirement for 2 to 3 years ,and then die.Get the picture? you will never get out what you paid in)
You know, that's purely an issue of demographics and not social policy. Retirement ages are going to rise in the US too, and in Japan, and every other place there was a post WWII baby boom.
The_Raven on 30/8/2008 at 15:05
Quote Posted by heywood
Yeah, yeah, I know. Unfortunately, national politics is a dirty sport that either corrupts or turns away most of the people I would want. What bugs me though, is how voters reward people for how they play the political game rather than their accomplishments. Congress has a NINE percent approval rating, yet the fucking sheep will forgive or forget it all as soon as the TV ads start flying, electing them all once again.
That is so true, which is probably why the vast majority of people are completely disenfranchised when it comes to large scale democracy.
Starrfall on 30/8/2008 at 15:13
Quote Posted by demagogue
She does talk about hunting all the time; her love for the NRA, hunting, fishing (her career before politics), and all things po-dunk was a selling point. I don't think she's stupid or incompetent, though.
Well the former doesn't necessarily imply the latter of course, but if she introduces herself by talking about being a hockey mom it's not surprising if right now that's all people see her as. She's so unknown she's going to have to make her own case for competence and she hasn't yet. But it's only been like 24 hours so
Quote Posted by ravoll
All I have to say is if anyone asking for "change" gets in office,All you will have left is "change"
You don't actually know anything about Obama or his policies do you. This "if Obama is elected we'll turn into commies overnight!" thing betrays a lot of ignorance and hysteria. You could at the very least identify which policies you think will lead to a socialist state and why you think they will.
BEAR on 30/8/2008 at 15:25
Quote Posted by ravoll
Don`t know if this has already been adressed in another thread or not.I only read a few.I Am an American citizen living in the BRD.Bundes Republik Deutschland.Is and always will be,with or without the Berlin wall.
Have been following the U.S. elections every time they come around for the last 18 years.It gets stupider every time.Candidates promising things that are soon forgotten,as soon as they are in office,Candidates backed by the weapons industrie ect.. and all the political mudslingen and bad mouthing that goes with elections.Now we have a black man asking for "change".
Obama claims to want some form of a social system in America.Does any one
understand what the price of a social system is.Here are a few things to think about, based what I deal with day to day.
1)There will be no overtime wages,but the overtime hours will still be worked:
A social system is strongly based upon the needs of the finacially weaker citizens.The logic here is ,if an employer can afford to pay time and a half to his workers, then he or she should be using that money to hire and pay someone that can`t find a job.This leads to the employies that he or she has
having to work longer hours for the same pay
2) Normal wages will be generally lower than they are now:
In a social system,
the employer and the employed both pay into the system 50/50.Thats health insurance, unemployment insurance,and retirement.Then comes income tax.The employee pays tax on his earnings while the employer pays tax on what he pays his employee.This generally leads to lower wages,and inadvertently contibutes to the unemployment rate because it is just to expensive to hire new people.
A little note on retirement:The money you pay for retirement is not for your retirement,it`s for the people that are currently retired.It may not and probably will not be there when you yourself retire.
3) The retirement ages rise : In Germanys social system, one of the rules for retirement at 65 is that you have worked for at least 40 years.If not then you will not recieve full benefits,if thereare any left to be recieved.
Because of the fact that people are indeed living longer and healthier,the Retirement age will most likely be raised to 67 here shortly.This also makes it difficult for a younger person just entering the job market to find employment,because the job place he needs is filled 2 years longer.
( A dark note on retirement:Pay into the system for 40 years,or until you´re 67 ,retire,draw your retirement for 2 to 3 years ,and then die.Get the picture? you will never get out what you paid in)
4) Socialized medicine sound good ? Think again:The already expensive medical system will be faced with having to treat people that have payed very little by comparison into the system itself.Therefore medical care must be kept cheap.The best and most effctive way to reduce cost is to reduce
the quality of care.Plain and simple.
I know that Americans don`t run to the doctor for every little fart that gets caught sideways.Unlike some people here.But the human mentality says "If I`ve payed for it ,I´m going to use it".This kind of thinking will drive medical cost way up,resulting in even lower quality.the only way to curb a drop in quality is to raise health insurance.this means you pay more for the same sorry care.:tsktsk:
I Know there is somebody out ther that does`nt believe me, or is thinking,"Its only these 4 little drawbacks", but it`s not.A social system cannot function
on these alone.Germany has since the early 50`s been living high on the hog within there system.In the last 10 years or so they have been struggling to keep there system upright.Our social insurance cost has been climbing steadily,while the benefits and wages sink.The revenue generated from the
payments into the system are`nt enough.They have had to find other by way of road tolls, ecological taxes and things the government don`t even tell us.I pay close to 500 Euros a month(about 630 Dollars) on social benefits and income tax.
All I have to say is if anyone asking for "change" gets in office,All you will have left is "change"
I always have to marvel at the people who are just sooo angry at all the "stupid" politicians, and yet somehow they can't even form a coherent, reasonably formatted sentence. I mean jesus it looks like a 11 year old wrote you post, but somehow you feel your just the man to tell us how its all supposed run!
Where do you even get the shit you are saying, honestly! No overtime? What in the fuck are you talking about? Where do you get that they are going to get rid of overtime? There has been nothing (to my knowledge) that could possibly give you that idea, and yet you have it? Do explain! When I was making a measily 2000 bucks a month I had over 400 taken out here in the US. Its a matter of what its spent on, not exactly what they take. That and they are trying SO hard to make people realize that they will
lower taxes for 95% of Americans. Problem is you chuds are so stupid that the have to practically beat you in the face with their talking points to get it into your head, and still you think Obama is a muslim who will raise your taxes and take your guns. Jesus Christ man.
Quote:
Have been following the U.S. elections every time they come around for the last 18 years.It gets stupider every time.Candidates promising things that are soon forgotten,as soon as they are in office,Candidates backed by the weapons industrie ect.. and all the political mudslingen and bad mouthing that goes with elections.Now we have a black man asking for "change".
God, really? Did these words really come out of a human mind? Once again you have succeeded in causing me to lose some faith in Obama, but only by causing me to lose more of the little faith I have left in humanity as a whole.
june gloom on 30/8/2008 at 15:56
Quote Posted by BEAR
I always have to marvel at the people who are just sooo angry at all the "stupid" politicians, and yet somehow they can't even form a coherent, reasonably formatted sentence. I mean jesus it looks like a 11 year old wrote you
r post, but somehow you feel you
'r
e just the man to tell us how it
's all supposed
to run!
Fixed that for you. :thumb:
That said, yeah I didn't bother reading his post- too much gibberish not enough basic formatting skills.
Ko0K on 30/8/2008 at 16:43
Change is just a platform he is running on, and of course he won't (and can't) deliver all that he now promises once he is in the office. Election-year politics are all about winning, which means there will be a lot of pandering going on to grab the votes. What matters are the policies, and domestic economy is on top of the agenda. That fantastic speech of Obama's is mostly theatrics, but he does utter one key phrase that the Republicans don't have the nerves to say, which is "middle class." So much for "experience and history" if one can't even identify what's crippling the nation. What's more of a gamble, as far as I'm concerned, is the fate of a nation being decided by armchair politicians clicking their tongues at worker bees who would normally be oblivious to politics while their wallets were full.
fett on 30/8/2008 at 17:08
Er...guys, I think he might be Dutch (second sentence?). :erm: :confused:
heretic on 30/8/2008 at 17:18
Quote Posted by heywood
Axelrod is the man who gave the Obama campaign its direction, its tone, its themes, its talking points, etc. How do I know this? Because here in Boston, we saw a preview of the Obama campaign 2 years ago when David Axlerod was running Deval Patrick's campaign for governor. The similarities between the two campaigns are uncanny...
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M6x1H08aFc) You dont say...
SD on 30/8/2008 at 17:19
Quote Posted by Starrfall
Well the former doesn't necessarily imply the latter of course, but if she introduces herself by talking about being a hockey mom it's not surprising if right now that's all people see her as. She's so unknown she's going to have to make her own case for competence and she hasn't yet.
On the other hand, she's so
unknown it's going to be difficult for her opponents to make the case for her incompetence, and a lot of people will be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on that score. What are they going to do - critique her grocery bills from 3 years ago?