froghawk on 23/3/2019 at 16:23
Here's the thing - we may be getting new games in the genre, but are they really true to the ethos if they don't push that design forward (and instead become further away from that ideal)? That certainly seems to be true of the Arkane games and new deus ex, and it doesnt sound like Ascendent is much different. All of this stuff - reviving system shock and bloodlines included - feels more like a nostalgic indulgence to me than a new frontier in emergent systems design.
ZylonBane on 23/3/2019 at 16:33
Quote Posted by henke
Void Bastards
Are you drunk?
henke on 23/3/2019 at 16:59
YES! THIS is what I wanted! Hurt me, ZylonBane! HURT ME!
(I didn't look terribly closely at that one so maybe I'm way off)
Sulphur on 23/3/2019 at 17:05
If that's what you really want, show some commitment and put Sekiro on that list
icemann on 23/3/2019 at 17:54
And Prey's since released Mooncrash, which is immersive sim and rogue-lite put together. I prefer the main campaign, but it's certainly interesting and fun for a bit.
Tony_Tarantula on 23/3/2019 at 22:51
While I'm not sure I'd say it's "great" because the game has thus fair failed to hold my interest, MGS V was interesting because it was more or less a Japanese take on that type of game. That isn't immediately obvious because it's got the "MGS" name and a lot of the tropes but in practice it's far more "emergent gameplay" than it is traditional Metal Gear. A lot of things in the game are simulated to a much higher level of detail than is readily apparent when first playing the game. It's the kind of game where more often than not you can get out of a tricky situation with a bit of quick thinking that isn't readily apparent. For example I found out that if you play the "toilet noises" tape soldiers will assume the person in the stall is having a really bad day and leave you alone.
demagogue on 24/3/2019 at 04:34
I can second what froghawk said, that current incarnations of imm-sims -- Dishonored, Prey -- are harking back to old nostolgic tropes without actually getting to the heart of what the genre is supposed to be about, simulating real world systems & immersing you in them.
Of the games I've played recently, the one that's gotten to that level the most is Kingdom Come Deliverance, which does a great job of creating what looks like a sim of the real world, with real world systems you can be a part of, although it's still quite narrative driven. I can't say anything really bad about it. I love it so far. It's a bit buggy, but if the price of deeper simulation and worldbuilding is more bugginess, I'll take it over the alternative of a polished but superficial world.
But actually the game that's had the most crazy world simulation and immerses you in it, and innovates on old models all over the place, has been Caves of Qud, which has Dwarf Fortress like systems for a single player adventure, like really old school Ultima. Like Dwarf Fortress it's an ascii game though, so still pretty niche.
Edit Let me also take a moment to mention that for every game I just mentioned, Dishonored*, Prey, KCD, and Caves of Qud, I have an unreasonable affection for. I've loved playing all of them & being in their worlds. So the rumors of the death of immersive sims as a meaningful genre that draws people in has been greatly exaggerated.
* Ok Dishonored 2 hasn't drawn me in as much as the first for some reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit2: Ok, on the topic of henke's question... The System Shock 3 trailer genuinely got me down. They don't have a real budget and the contrast to Prey really makes it noticeable. And I think it might make a difference not only with the look of the game, but with the systems and gameplay. Also the botched Ultima release doesn't give me much confidence. The trailer didn't really play up any of the RPG or sim aspects of it either. So I don't know what to expect of it. Like a lot of us here probably I recognize System Shock 2 as part of the holy trinity of golden era gaming, so of course I want to root for it. I just don't know what to make of it yet.
Bloodlines 2's trailer also didn't play up any of the RPG or sim aspects, but it looked fantastic. And I'm less worried just because of what kind of game the original Bloodlines was. It was an RPG to its core, so I can't imagine them not having those kinds of systems and even bothering keeping the name (like I could for System Shock 3). So I'm optimistic for this one.
Cyberpunk 2077 has given off all the right signals of a deep world and storytelling ... but almost too right, if you know what I mean. It's barreling down a hype train, so I don't know what to predict with it. I think it may be like Witcher 3, which was good, but not my favorite fantasy RPG by a ways.
Outer Worlds looked paper thin from its trailer, for a supposedly open world game.
I haven't looked into the others enough to have an opinion.
icemann on 24/3/2019 at 08:21
One of the true tests of a immersive sim game, is in how well it holds up on a second play where you already know whats what, and Prey holds up for me.
EvaUnit02 on 24/3/2019 at 08:37
Quote Posted by henke
YES! THIS is what I wanted! Hurt me, ZylonBane! HURT ME!
(I didn't look terribly closely at that one so maybe I'm way off)
Were you trying to paraphase Grey Fox from MGS1 just now?
Starker on 24/3/2019 at 08:40
Quote Posted by demagogue
Edit2: Ok, on the topic of henke's question... The System Shock 3 trailer genuinely got me down. They don't have a real budget and the contrast to Prey really makes it noticeable. And I think it might make a difference not only with the look of the game, but with the systems and gameplay.
Thief and SS2 didn't look all that hot either, though.