Subjective Effect on 5/7/2024 at 14:58
An inevitable rejection result since the Tories are so so very corrupt and full of it. But our alternative was this total loser who is acting like people wanted him, instead of accepting that people just needed a change.
Fingers crossed they at least save the NHS.
Tomi on 5/7/2024 at 15:25
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
But our alternative was this total loser who is acting like people wanted him, instead of accepting that Pele just needed a change.
That's right. You should never underestimate Pele's influence in UK politics. ;)
Anyway... How come you think that the UK has fallen
now that there's at least a glimmer of hope for the future? I don't follow UK politics that closely, but I'm under the impression that Starmer is leaning a bit too close to the center on the political map for the "true" Labour voters. A bit like Tony Blair maybe? Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm genuinely interested to know why Starmer is despised by so many. In any case, the UK fell many years ago, and now there's a little chance that it could get back on its feet. The only thing that I find truly worrying is that so many people are behind Farage and the Reform loonies now, but the rise of the far right loonies is a worldwide phenomenon.
Cipheron on 5/7/2024 at 17:58
"But our alternative was this total loser"
If you read the guy's bio he's clearly a very successful person. He only entered politics in 2015, and has been clearly on a winning streak the whole time.
Cipheron on 5/7/2024 at 18:00
"But our alternative was this total loser"
If you read the guy's bio he's clearly a very successful person. He only entered politics in 2015, and has been clearly on a winning streak the whole time.
The guy had a successful 25 yer law career, including being appointed to numerous fairly important positions. He's probably the most experienced Prime Minister the UK has had in decades.
Compare to Boris Johnson, who's career was in muckracking tabloid newspapers.
Subjective Effect on 5/7/2024 at 19:07
Johnson was useless too. I'm not a right wing voter, despite what people here may think. My father was in local Labour government and I was a lifelong Labour voter (never voted Tory in my life) up until the last election when I voted LibDem. I do live in an area where Labour would never get in though.
My autocorrect frequently corrects people to Pele, which is ridiculous and comical at times.
I don't care about Keir's bio. He's widely viewed as wishy washy for good reason.
Cipheron on 6/7/2024 at 09:11
Wishy washy because they didn't lay out a lot of specifics.
however, that seems to have been the actual strategy here.
If you give people a lot of specifics they're probably going to concoct sound bites that attack the wording of the specifics, with carefully chosen attacks that misrepesent the bigger picture. While the guys throwing that shade don't have a plan themselves, so you can't attack other to say "they're vague!"
So i wouldn't say they failed by lacking a detailed plan to take to the electorate: most people wouldn't get what most things in the plan are actually about or won't read it, so you get attacks against the plan that have nothing to do with what's being proposed. See the recent referendum in Australia about native rights, which mostly revolved around fabricated points.
So, they definitely have detailed plans about what they want to do, but they knew that the way things work in the social media age is that things get taken out of context, memes get created and the plans get distorted and mixed up with conspiracy theories.
For example, if you publish a simple plan for "walkable cities", now you've got (
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-27/the-15-minute-city-conspiracy/102015446) the guys who go on about "15 minute cities" being gulags who are going to be spreading conspiracy theories about it.
That's just the society we live in now. If you want to invest in walkable cities and public transport, only discuss it in vague terms and don't use any language that could play into the right-wing conspiracy eco-system. So, you're better off not publishing the plan, but just getting elected, then investing in the changes.
rachel on 6/7/2024 at 09:42
Starmer's throwing trans folk under the bus for political credit in the final days of the campaign was not a good look. But it's better than the Tories's unbridled transphobia so there's that...
Subjective Effect on 6/7/2024 at 13:35
Depends on your stance on the issue, whether you think it was that bad I suppose. Labour seem progressive to the point of needing to be reined in, and the Tories not progressive enough that they need a push.
rachel on 6/7/2024 at 14:00
It was that bad.
Subjective Effect on 6/7/2024 at 14:54
You'll have to link me. Perhaps I missed something.
