The Summer Movie Megathread

SubJeff on 12/9/2013 at 08:17

I'm not surprised but I'm disappointed. There are very few western remakes that are any good/better than the originals. In fact I can't think of one. Everyone will say The Departed but nah, if you saw Infernal Affairs first you'll prefer IA. And I am totally open to a good remake, if such a thing is possible. (The Grudge was less of headmess than Ju-On btw, and that aspect was better imho).

Sharlto Copley alters his accent to be a proper Afrikaner or British South African but if you hear him speak normally he's still got an accent.

DaBeast on 12/9/2013 at 09:07

I can't help but think that a lot of the hate for remakes has more to do with the person watching foreign films than the quality of the film itself.

I don't mean to sound confrontational or insulting, but it could be a little bit of snobbery or elitism, or maybe just the feeling of personal investment.

I think The Departed was superior in every way, like the screenplay, camera work and acting.

I've come across this hyperbole filled hatred particularly on IMDB and pointed out as above that a lot of the animosity could be something along the lines of a hipster realising his favourite obscure band is now ultra popular or when some famous band does a cover of a song that sky-rockets up the charts when the original artist barely registered; the inner hipster makes a point of being a fan of band x before they were famous etc (what they really mean is they liked them before you).

Again, I don't mean to be offending, I'm just curious about behaviour and reactions to stimulus, or how different people react to the same stimulus differently. Point being I've recognised some of this in myself and thought I was above it until the remake of The Girl with The Dragon Tattoo, and whilst watching it I was constantly comparing it to the original TV movie and specifically Noomi vs Rapace. I found I was kind of annoyed that people were going to watch this and think it was super original, edgy and hard hitting when it had been done before, almost scene for scene despite the directors assertion that he only ever followed the book.

So, as you suggest, if I'd seen Infernal Affairs first, had I been more invested in that telling of the story, that portrayal of characters and the emotion of that film...I think I'd still say Departed was better, but maybe I'd be a bit more angry about it :)

Can you objectively say REC was better than Quarantine, The Ring better than The Ring etc?

Or could you say they're better for a western audience? I'd say most likely.

Oldboy had some interesting scenes, but really I think its massively overrated, like a lot of foreign films, or at least overrated in a way that only foreign films are, for the same hipstery reasons. It's isn't mainstream western cinema, its somewhat obscure, how dare they take this obscure thing I like and make it mainstream.

Gryzemuis on 12/9/2013 at 10:36

I am completely with Subjective Effect on this one.

If a movie is good, it doesn't need a remake. The only thing you can do is spoil everything. Hollywood doesn't make remakes because they think a movie can be done better. Or because they want to give the story a wider audience. The only thing they want to do is to make more money. Don't forget that.

What if someone could paint sunflowers better than Van Gogh ? Would we look at it ? Would we put those paintings in a museum ? The old Van Gogh crap is 120 years old. It's time for a reboot, I would say. But nobody does it. Why ? Because maybe art critics aren't such cunts as movie journalists. But most of all: because nobody can make money off of a crappy Van Gogh reboot.

Sometimes it is hard to tell why you like a movie. It could be little things. For me often it is the overwhelming effect of seeing something I've never seen before. Making me think about things I've never thought of before. The story is very important. But for me the most important thing is: nothing in the movie fucks it up. And this is where Hollywood goes wrong almost every time. There is always something that fucks it up. Always.

One of the brilliant things about Old Boy for me was the fact that I didn't expect a good movie. I didn't know anything. I hadn't seen a trailer. I had no idea what it was going to be about. I didn't know the actors. I hardly know anything about Korea. I was going to see another movie with a good friend. The movie was sold out. So we decided to go to Old Boy. Pure coincidence.

Put DiCaprio or Matt Damon in the main role. Movie ruined instantly. There will be a thousand ways to ruin the magic of that movie. And Hollywood will certainly find a few dozens of those.

Angel Dust on 12/9/2013 at 10:42

Quote Posted by DaBeast

In my experience the people who complain loudest about western remakes are those who have seen very little foreign film, except those that get remade and the complaining is them putting on airs. None of the super film-buffs I know, the guys who know film inside and out, are the least bit bothered by the western remakes. In fact there is usually a certain level of interest in how a film is going to translate. But the guy who has seen Oldboy but not Thirst or I'm a Cyborg, But That's OK or Sympathy for Lady Vengeance? Yeah, you can count on that guy to not shut up until everyone knows that he saw a foreign film that one time.

And, yeah, I'd agree that Oldboy is extraordinarily overrated by a certain group of people. It's a good film but far from a masterpiece and I can see room for different interpretations. Is Spike Lee the man to pull out a good one? To be honest, probably not, but it's such an interesting choice for the material that I am extremely curious to see how it turns out.

Edit: and, shit, I'm not calling anyone here out on any such behaviour. I don't know any of you enough to make such a call. But if you watched Oldboy and liked it, and haven't seen any of Park's other films, do check them out.

SubJeff on 12/9/2013 at 12:55

The Departed is a better made film, no doubt. The actors are solid, the camerawork is great. It's a good film. But it also takes stuff from IA 2 and 3 and it misses out the awesome morse code communication in IA. The scene where they both click that they have an opposite number and communicate in code as the cop is in the back of the car driving through the city and the mobsters is in his office isn't in The Departed afaik and its the pivotal scene.

The Ring is pretty good but it, naturally for a remake it would seem, doesn't quite get the atmosphere right and is less psychological and more shock horror. Only a bit, but you only need a bit too much to alter things.

I'm not saying that these are bad films, per se. They lack the flavour of the originals though and they question is - do they need to be remade? See, if there was a great idea and it was messed up a bit then by all means remake it. I feel the same about Hollywood reboots. RoboCop is perfect and does not need a reboot. Same with Terminator. Oldboy is a good film because of it's Korean-ness, not in spite of it, and the remake will lose that. I don't actually like Oldboy simply because I found the final 3rd thoroughly unpleasant but the first time I watched it it was :eek: and a crazy ride.

There are a few films out there (Western and "Foreign", I mean what are Spanish films? Its the West isn't it? what is a "foreign" film?) that have great ideas but poor execution so why not do them instead?

As to your "only seen a few foreign films" nonsense Angel Dust, just no.

faetal on 12/9/2013 at 13:40

The rationale behind transnational remakes as I've always seen it, is that someone has thought "wow, what an amazing film, shame only a niche audience will watch foreign films" and then sought to bring the amazing to a format where mainstream audiences will pick it up. The trouble being that in the process of anglicising it, it usually gets put through the Hollywood treatment and loses something. So yeah, understand the reasoning, but often the execution takes something away.

Gryzemuis on 12/9/2013 at 14:40

I watched Abre Los Ojos a few years after I saw Vanilla Sky. By coincedence. I hadn't realized it was the same story. Vanilla Sky was an entertaining movie. To my surprise, I didn't enjoy Abre Los Ojos at all. So yes, Hollywood remakes can be better. That doesn't mean that happens often.

Very good example. A Dutch movie: The Vanishing. Good movie, strong story, terrifying ending. Such a strong story, that Hollywood decides it wants to do a remake. They change the ending. Not slightly, but completely. 100% the opposite. 180 degrees. Unbelievable. It's like remaking Schindler's List. And then in the end it turns out there was no WWII, it was all a dream.

Hollywood buys the rights for a foreign movie only as a marketing tool. Because a movie has a certain name, they hope they will sell x extra tickets and y extra DVDs. Their goal is not to open the story to a new audience. They only want to make money.

They'll make a movie with sex and car chases and explosions, and happily call it My Neighbor Totoro, if they think it will make them more money.

Angel Dust on 12/9/2013 at 19:43

The real messed up thing about The Vanishing remake is that it was the same director as the original.

Quote Posted by NuEffect

As to your "only seen a few foreign films" nonsense Angel Dust, just no.

It's been true enough in my experience but looking back on the post, it looks like I didn't word it very well. It comes across as like I'm saying this stance represents all dissenting opinion of remakes and I am therefore discarding that criticism. What is was meant to be was a different perspective on the snobbishness that DaBeast was saying can sometimes creep into these conversations. I don't think anyone here is doing that.

Quote:

Oldboy is a good film because of it's Korean-ness, not in spite of it, and the remake will lose that. I don't actually like Oldboy simply because I found the final 3rd thoroughly unpleasant but the first time I watched it it was :eek: and a crazy ride.

I don't disagree that a lot of Oldboy's power comes from the way Park Chan-wook filmed it but I think that the core story, which I'm guessing is from the manga, is interesting enough to support a different take. If Spike Lee at all tries to recapture that Korean-ness, it will be an embarassment but if it he doesn't inject the tale with his own brand of kook and style, then it will fail also.

Quote Posted by faetal

I reckon this is correct. For example, it's clear that the director of Let Me In has a deep passion and respect for Let The Right One In but even though he did a pretty good job, it is lacking something that the original had and it's probably that reverence for the original that ultimately makes the film more than a little unnecessary.