The Summer Movie Megathread

froghawk on 10/6/2013 at 13:59

Quote Posted by Brethren

This is pretty much the complete opposite of any review or opinion I've ever read about Wrath of Khan, critic/fan or otherwise. Boring villain? Uninteresting revenge plot? Mirky motivations?

Go watch the Space Seed episode and then the film yourself and make up your own mind about it. Either the positive reviews are all nostalgia talking, or the film just hasn't aged well.

Into Darkness has also gotten very positive reviews from the critics. 87% on Rotten Tomatoes - quite close to Khan's 91%. But is it actually a truly GOOD film? Nope.

ID did, however, provide Khan with a more logical motivation than he had in TWoK. In the Wrath of Khan, his motivation was as such:
Kirk gave Khan an entire planet and a member of his crew as a trophy wife. In an unrelated event, a nearby planet explodes, rendering Khan's planet uninhabitable and killing his trophy wife. Khan then arbitrarily decides that this is all Kirk's fault, and dedicates the rest of his life and risks his crew to hunt Kirk down, killing all of them (including himself and his son) in the process.
I mean... what? How does that make any sense whatsoever? And we're also supposed to believe that this guy is hyper-intelligent, despite acting completely illogically and displaying nothing impressive except the size of his pecs? It's just not believable, and it's not good plotting. ID at least provided him with the same motivation that he had in the Space Seed episode, which was both more logical and more consistent with his character. We actually get to see Khan's intelligence, strength, and power this time - he doesn't just seem like a moping child misattributing his woes to Kirk. Though I am quite confused as to why they cast a white actor to play an Indian guy... or as to why they made the film at all, really.

Renault on 10/6/2013 at 14:47

Quote Posted by froghawk

Go watch the Space Seed episode and then the film yourself and make up your own mind about it.

I watched both recently, actually. It all made perfect sense to me. Kirk gives Khan a planet to colonize, but fails to check on his progress. Khan is understandably pissed off, with no communication for what, 10, 15 years? His wife and friends die. Even in SS, while showing he does have intelligence, he's also super aggressive and has rage issues, the need to conquer. I think the Khan in Wrath is a perfect extension of what we saw in SS.

froghawk on 10/6/2013 at 19:09

So a very arrogant and powerful superbeing is mad because a mere human didnt regularly check up on him like a child? Yeah, makes sense. Especially since, iirc, part of their agreement at the end of SS was that there would be no more contact between them and all parties were pleased with that. Let's not mention that Chekov wasnt a part of the crew yet for that episode, yet him and Khan immediately recognize each other.

The plot was incredibly contrived to bring Khan back. Great if it worked for you - I don't see any reason that others shouldnt enjoy media that I dislike - but it just doesnt click for me on any level.

Chimpy Chompy on 10/6/2013 at 19:49

Khan is a part of the wider subtext of an aging Kirk facing consequences of his actions, ie he can't get away with the hubris of his youth any more.

Also, it's really hard for me to see that film as having the same flaws at the Motion(less) Picture. It's a naval thriller in spaaaace, as opposed to an attempt at high minded 2001-esque scifi.

froghawk on 10/6/2013 at 21:50

Yes, I get all that, but the aging Kirk plot strikes me as equally silly to the whole 'Voyager searching for the meaning of life' nonsense from TMP. Indeed, they are very different films - I compare them only because Khan also has ungodly slow pacing and both films are filled with rather stupid philosophizing about life and death.

Angel Dust on 10/6/2013 at 23:22

Quote Posted by froghawk

I maintain that The Voyage Home was the first decent ST film.

Even though I like the first 3 films in their own ways, I would agree with this. The Undiscovered Country is by far my favourite though.

SubJeff on 10/6/2013 at 23:45

After Earth has to be unseen if you are to be relieved.

I like sci-fi. This was oh so bad. The best things about this film were some of the forests it was shot in were really nice and the Elysium trailer.

Morte on 11/6/2013 at 07:51

Quote Posted by Thirith

I agree 100% with this when it comes to the scene preceding "KHAAAAAAAN!!!", but other than that, which scenes did you feel were unearned riffs on WoK?

The scene preceding KHAAAAAAAAN was unearned, KHAAAAAAAAN was silly. It's like these movies are written by people who only know about Star Trek second hand, so they turn that scene into what pop culture think it is - a cry of frustrated rage - instead of what it actually is - Kirk hamming it up to make Khan think he's won.

Scots Taffer on 11/6/2013 at 10:49

FF6 was hilarious stupid. I mean, I think I actually brain haemorrhaged somewhere along the way, but I had fun. :)

froghawk on 11/6/2013 at 13:34

Quote Posted by Morte

Abrams hadn't seen any Star Trek prior to making his films, so he watched all of the original series and movies, didn't like any of it at all, and turned it into what he wanted it to be. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if this were true, as these new films have an even sillier tone and a heavier reliance on action setpieces.

Quote Posted by JJ Abrams

‘Star Wars' gave you a way in - ‘Star Wars' introduced this farm boy who is just in the middle of nowhere and suddenly he's called to adventure . . . and you got to know someone who is then taken on an extraordinary adventure. ‘Star Trek' always had the characters in ‘extraordinary adventure mode' [already]!

Star Wars never felt like a sci-fi thing. [Star Trek] always felt too philosophical for me.