Raf on 21/10/2003 at 20:52
Wao, thanks for that link, Spitter, it's great !
Spitter on 25/10/2003 at 11:07
You must be confusing me with Erik Boielle. :cheeky:
Raf on 25/10/2003 at 12:37
oh yes, sorry Erik
jbd on 26/10/2003 at 04:35
I am happy about supposed stealth improvement. One of the oddest bits about Arx 1 was combining a bow with stealth. If you hit them while in concealment they wouldn't know where you were, and stagger around like they were drunk, and you could shoot repeatedly -- until you missed. Then they knew exactly where you were and made a beeline for you. It made so little sense.
For preventing the usual whack-back up-move forward-whack cycle in melee fighting, it might help to give the AI more flexibility in what they can do. That is, let them back up, and do jumping attacks, and in essence be much smarter than just having them run up and try to hit you.
Tinker on 1/1/2004 at 11:36
The wind ups on the melee weapons did seem too long, but the other all jousting effect seemed okay. It was basically inituative and not over complex. Doing melee well is tough in first person simply because it's 'in your face' and difficult to understand what is happening, especially with short weapons with point blank reach.
The spell casting was very good. Infact I'd be tempted to drop the default 3 quick slots and replace them with contingecy and spell-trigger type spells to build up multiple banks of sequenced spells that decrease your mana cap by reserving some mana for the trigger. (Hope that makes sense.)
Could have used more bows in the game, some AI behaviour was inevitably quirky. The archery worked though, and was at times a little too effective because of the AI.
Stealth needed a bit more environment support from the maps and engine. Working out where the shadows actually lay wasn't inituative and some maps had too much undousable lighting. Basically make it more like Thief ;) . The player charcter also seemed to have adopted Garrett's perchance for high heel pumps if the footstep SFX where anything to go by.
Switching weapons was cumbersome. I'd like to have 2 or 3 inventory slots to prime different weapons as main-arm, side-arm, etc, with respective keys to draw them.
Guru George on 18/6/2004 at 00:55
Fascinating thread!
I think the essential point was made by somebody when they said about the FPS convention - move line of sight, point, click. Totally intuitive. Melee weapons have yet to develop this intuitiveness. I think it could be attained by connecting the mouse movement to some point in the body (or possibly the balance point of the weapon? not sure).
The cursor could move (e.g.) the "dantien" (belly - this would give a very "whippy" effect), or the heart area (less "whippy"), or the "balance point" of the weapon (a more direct and "flat" feel, but not as "flat" feeling as just moving the point of the blade). I'm not sure which would be the best, but in all cases (and I guess the heavier the weapon, the more towards the belly the point would have to be), the idea would be that you get as instinctive a feel for the momentum and swing of a weapon as possible just by moving the mouse.
This would require some kind of physics/skeletal/muscle modelling system to effectively model the "play" between the "centre point" and rest of the body/weapon.
Freelancer might seem like a totally unrelated game, but if anybody's played "turret mode" in Freelancer, they'll know what I mean by sense of momentum and swing (I believe Homeworld has something similar, though I haven't played it). The camera movement in "turret mode" in Freelancer has just the right "swingey" feel.
This would give a real feel that you were handling a weapon. Skill increase would then be based partly on enemies getting better, partly on incrementally raising damage per hit, etc., partly on weapon stats, partly on a calculation based on how you'd been doing, how well you were actually improving.
So basically, you'd have an "arm" modal keypress that would take you out of your line of sight being controlled by the mouse (also out of other uses of LMB/RMB), to this hypothetical "balance point" being controlled by the mouse.
Add to this system a good blocking system as outlined about re. LMB/RMB, then I reckon this would be about right, and would become the standard.
Don't know if this makes any sense to anyone, but I thought I'd toss it into the mix.
Approx01 on 22/6/2004 at 23:31
There are a couple things I would like to see in the next Arx title.
1. More player customizations. Male/Female and the ability to change their body shape and size. More hair/face/eye styles. A cool thing to do would be to have a list of premade names to chose from. All the names would be prerecorded for the voice acting, and characters along the story line would react differently to you depending on the meaning of you name. A different list of names would appear for the sex or class of character you made. You could chose between a few classes of characters with predetermined stats with so many left over to be added to what you wish. Classes could be anything from knight, archer, knife fighter, magician, priestess, barbarion. You could even throw in other classes for fun like trolls, goblins, and dwarfs (since they would still be alive here :cheeky: )
2. It would be great for the game have a stronger RPG-like feel. More people to talk to, more quests to do, and more than one main city/kingdom. Events and more quests will come available as you complete different tasks. You could take on the role of a hero and have people ask for help, take the role of a thief and join a thief's guild, or even take the role of a mercenary and be rewarded for the tasks available for each role. Of course you could change your role anytime during the game, but you would be faced with a difficult challenge(depending on your level at the time) to prove that you have truly changed.
3. More items to equip. You need many, many more weapons and armors. Make them have level requirements as well so that you couldn't just use a cheat code to get the best armor and weapon in the game and be able to use them right then. It would also be good to have different shops for different items instead of having them all jumbled together. The shops would need to be seperate and have "specialists" for each item to keep it more realistic. Shops for people as the black smith(for all of you bladed weapons and armors), the leather craftsman(for your gauntlets and boots), the hunter (for the selling of shorter knives as well as bows and arrows), a jewler(for the making of all your rings and amulets), and maybe even a magician or something (for the selling of your runes or enchanting your items). You could also go to the different shops to combine items from each shop to make stronger items. You could go to the leather craftsman and buy a pair of hard leather gauntlets, and then run over to the blacksmith and have him add a layer of steal plates or chain mail to give more defense. Another example would be like the "Bejeweled" items in Arx. You could take a weapon and run down to the jewler and have some sort of magic jewels or gems added to your weapon to give it added damage. Also, you could take your weapon to the magic shop and have it enchanted with a poison damage bonus, or the ability to steal life and what not. With each item you equip, you appearance changes, but much more so than with the origional Arx. Your guantlets and boots change with each new set you buy and all your items can show wear from their poor durability.
4. The world of Arx was much to small. The maps need to be much larger and span a great area. The idea with having the 8 levels was great, but I felt that I needed more areas to explore. I do not know what Arx 2 is going to look like, but I hope that the outside would is going to be expansive AND you get access to some of the levels from Arx 1. Maybe just portions of the caves down to lvl 3 or 4, with the dwarves cheerfully mining away.
5. I felt the number of things to fight in Arx was very limited. I feel that being on the surface, you should have much wildlife to kill and gain experience from. It would also be more fun if the animal's population would regenerate so that you don't get bored having nothing to kill. Having an everlasting supply of things to kill (with stronger things to kill the further you venture from the main kindom or kingdoms) you will have to have a potions npc(or you could just use the magician npc) for the selling of an unlimited amount of the assorted potions in Arx.
6. I felt the combate system was adequate, but with the addition of the right-click blocking system, it would feel more polished and not ho-hum at times. More depth should be put into using ranged weapons. I feel that bows should have a right-click option that allows you to auto target the nearest enemy. The auto target system could have a checklist you could gain access to by have a hotkey such as "L" or something that would allow you to selected/deselect what you could auto target. The list would be something like this:
[]Humans
[]Trolls
[]Goblins
[]Dwarves
[]Friendlies
[]Enemies
[]Wildlife
[]etc.
You would simply check witch ones you would want the system to auto target. I agree with the idea that magic needs a hotkey system such as the numbers 1-0 at the top of the keyboard so that you are not having to "try" to cast a spell in the heat of battle. Along with magic, there should be skills for each class of character. The archer could have some fire or poison arrows, the knight could have a skill called "brutal swing" or something that added so much damage to his attack, barbarions could hit their hammer on the ground and cause an "earthquake" that damaged all opponents in range of the attack, etc. Skills would also be able to be added to a hotkey.
6. Just an idea: as well as having the option of "backstabbing" someone, you should have the option of knocking someone out. This way you could take care of someone for a while without the whole race trying to kill you. Another idea would be to utilize the scroll wheel on the mouse. Maybe use it to scroll through your enemies after you have locked on to one of them. Last idea :sweat: . Be allowed two weapon sets. Like equipping your one-handed sword and shield, then hit the hotkey such as "Shift" and equip your two-handed sword(or bow if you prefer it). Then when you feel the need to switch between your weapons you can just hit "Shift".
Edits:
Maybe try a third person view? :erm:
Step up on the graphics...it's 2004 now.
I enjoy gaining experience and leveling up in games, so when I realised the level cap was 10, I was dissapointed. It should be 50 at the least.
BeyondZork on 29/7/2004 at 06:07
One excellent thread. :cheeky:
First, IMO, the graphics in Arx are terrific, as is the third person perspective. Kudos to the whole Arx team, you've created a timeless masterpiece. :thumb:
I believe ultimately that combat in a CRPG like Arx should reflect both the atmosphere and theme of the game as well as the overall pace and style of gameplay intended by the developer.
For instance, if I was playing a game like say "Fencer 2004" I'd appreciate as real a fencing experience as possible, a fencing "sim." I'd enjoy a whole interface designed around motion sensitive anatomy through the mouse, multiple stance variations through, say, the mouse wheel, timing and pressure sensitive mouse button manipulations, a whole computer art form devoted to fencing.
I'd bet, while rewarding to the fencer, this kind of gaming experince, in order to be fully realized and undertaken, would be quite tedious.
- I.E. scroll the mouse wheel .7" forward to draw your left foot slightly forward, draw the mouse 2.4" down on the mouse pad to bend the left knee inward, while simultaneously holding the left mouse button and clicking the right mouse button 3 quick consecutive taps to indicate one of your (current *number of choices* due to close combat skill rating) 47 attack choices, time the movement of your character's pelvis forward with the 'WASD' keys exactly to the point when your opponent has slightly adjusted their stance, raised their sword, and angled their shoulders in such a manner as to make their left pectoral muscle the most vulnerable to your impending attack, and then strike, etc.
I know this is extreme, but the point here is: how exact a science should combat in a CRPG be? My answer is "to the point when it is challenging yet still inherently *fun* in a game-like fashion." Heck, if I want to fence I'll don the equipment and grab an epee (is that how it's spelled?).
Personally, I like the exaggerated - while still challenging mind you - experience of saying "BOOYAH!" as I blast an ogre with my 2H Greatsword over its dome. I love bringing down the HAMMA! :joke:
Really, in a computer game, I want the combat to be exaggerated, context sensitive, fast paced, and fun! If this can be achieved, while still challenging the player not only in terms of physical dexterity with the mouse but also technical understanding, You've got it good.
Ok, now onto my take on Arx :)
Arx Fatalis is simply a fantastic game. While it, like most any PC release, has a few shortcomings, all in all it is a work of art, obviously inspired by those who play and love RPG's. I can only hope that Arkane's wonderful efforts were duely rewarded financially, and that it is truely feasible for them to release Arx 2.
Honestly, I'd be a pompous ass to assume that I can just wield my ideas for improvements freely as if this whole "creating a PC game" thing were a walk in the park. If I only knew the extent of work and dedication it took to make Arx, I'm sure it would blow me away. But I'm only a gamer, so I can only reflect on my own experience, and thus ignorantly suggest various "improvements" to "plug in" to the Arx 2 formula:
1.)Take your time, Arkane. I can wait as long as you need me to, if you'll then release a sequel as worthy as the first. For instance, I experienced a sound issue with a Creative Audigy Gamer and EAX, specifically silent torches, and personally I'd love to hear those crackling torches the whole game through, so take your time, iron out any kinks, test for hardware compatibility, and so forth.
2.)Don't change your ways. Obviously, Arx was made by old school RPGers, and it should stay that way. Don't sell out, don't go mulit-player, don't conform in any way - be it with the interface, the typical layout for an RPG, the story, etc. What made Arx so great was it's unique and bold approach to try something different... it works.
3.)More is better... except when less is more. I've read alot of "More weapons!" "More quests!" "More NPCs!" etc. Lol. We all want more. But what makes Arx so wonderful is the level of detail given to the maps, quests/puzzles, and encounters. I'd rather have 5 Arx maps, with that gorgeous lighting, breath-taking texture levels, ambient sounds, etc. than 50 generic Morrowind maps that do little to inspire the player. Arx is so immersive I can close my eyes and wander around the city. Give me one "Monet" over 100 crude "finger-paintings." Don't sacrifice that attention to detail in an effort to expand the game. Instead, spend twice as long on Arx 2 , and offer a larger game with the same love and flavor. Heck, I'd spend $100 for 100 hours of Arx gameplay.
4.)Level 20! C'mon, you knew it was coming. Believe me, I love the fact that Arx doesn't just offer the player tons of encounters to just up the XP and cycle through levels quickly. I love the fact that each encounter feels unique, and each level decision feels truely important. But if you could expand that formula (i.e. more skills to distribute points on, more balanced leveling, etc.) so that the player could advance to level 20 without becoming superpowerful, that would be cool.
5.)A Thief is a Thief is a Thief... I love the character system, but I felt a bit as though there wasn't quite enough to differentiate the character types. It would be great to focus a bit more on each character type: Iron out the thief, improve on the overall stealth quality, the skills and their importance, the types of equipment used, the optional quests avalible to that character type, etc. Also the way NPC's react to the player based on their appearance, actions, etc. How about different body sizes/types? These could affect modifiers (i.e. bigger=combat advantage, smaller=stealth advantage). I don't know, Just thinking aloud here about ways to make different character types/selections more unique.
All in all, just release Arx 2 and I'll be a happy camper. Improve on it, and I'll be ecstatic! Thanks :cheeky:
SneaksieDave on 29/7/2004 at 19:33
Two interjections:
1. Because I am compelled to speak up whenever I see it mentioned - DBTS is very challenging movement and combat to learn (mouse-VSIM, in particular) but once you do, you'll never be satisfied with anything less again. For anyone who wants to give it a try, or has and gave up, I say the following: Give it about a week (or two) of daily ARENA practice with mouse VSIM before you give up, hopeless. After that "extended" (in game terms) period of time, you'll be guiding the blade toward necks with relative ease.
As a bit of proof, if you will - one of the things that happens to new players is, they always finding themselves swinging in circles at their feet or head. After you learn to control the blade, that doesn't happen anymore at all.
2. I once tried the Arx demo a looooong (again, relative) time ago, and the crashing put me off. I now have a much better system to try it on, and I'm going to do so tonight! If it goes well, new dungeon RPG for me. :) Why do you care? Well, you don't! But I'm sharing because I'm excited about it.
dippedappe on 30/7/2004 at 01:44
Whats with all the "I HATE MORROWIND" attitude?! Morrowind is one of the best RPG games out there. Ever seen a game with such freedom? You can do almost anything you can imagine. Not to mention the best darn Construction Set ever made to a game, so that you can keep improving it?
And Im only starting.
But enough of that.
Like all you guys I think Arx Fatalis is, if not the best, then one of them at-least. The few things I would like to see in Arx 2 is:
More non-battle related spells like the Ignite spell, just so your magical powers arent preserved only for combat. And also some Teleportation spells.
Guilds or similar. Like etc a School of Magic. You can study in the library of the school, help in experiments and become Arch wizard.
More "magical duals". I loved dueling with a priest. When I saw he painted the pattern of a Magic Missile, I conjure a Create Field and watched the missiles bounds of the Field, just before blasting him to China with a Fireball(hmmmmhmmm :angel: ). Maybe the pattern drawn by npc`s could be made a little bigger, so that you can identify the enemy spells easier.
And it would be great if you could use a reflect spell, like say...Hmm he is casting a Magic Missile, oh well I just do this(waving my hand and the missiles turns around in the air and hits the enemy caster instead of you(just like in Nox)). This have to be a higher level spell, to keep the balance(it would be stupid if a warrior could do that).
The Armor spell was one of my personal favorites, but maybe it could be a little more useful, so it would be stupid not to use it when you(as a mage) are in close combat.
Create a more class feel. You never hear the fairytale tell you of "the mage in shiny armor". A wizard should never use armor, but be dressed in robes, cloaks and pointy hats. And a Fighter shouldnt be able to learn the higher level spells. Its the one way, or the other(no point in being a weak little mage, if you can be a tough fighter with almost the same powers). I think it would be cool if you couldnt cast spells before being a wizard apprentice, and have a certain rank in the Spell Casting skill. In that way, you wouldn't have fighters and thiefs running around, casting fireballs
I was very impressed with the way you did puzzles. Instead of creating a Hack-and-Slash game you made it more of an adventure game. PLEASE dont change that. And the atmosphere just couldnt be better. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
And yeah. No more "Hell Hounds" please.
