mensch on 13/9/2016 at 17:55
Quote Posted by Renzatic
To me, Gnome 3 is the most straightforward of all the Linux desktops, and barely requires any tweaking at all. I'll install the (
http://www.android100.org/uploadfile/2015/1231/20151231013711_0.gif) Arc Theme, change the fonts to taste, install a couple of convenient shell extensions for poops and giggles, and I'm done with it. It takes all of about five minutes.
Arc looks really nice!
One of the things that bothered me the most about the various Linux DEs (and Windows' UI as well), coming from an OS X background, is the lack of a global application menu. In OS X all the application's menus are in the top bar, while in Linux DEs and Windows toolbars explicitly belong to a window. I believe Ubuntu tried to get the same behaviour of a global toolbar working across all application toolkits but ultimately abandoned this effort.
Also the interconnectedness of various services in OS X (notifications, search, contacts, etc.) is something that was just starting to develop in the Linux world when I tried various distributions (KDE's Akonadi and Nepomuk for example). I missed that level of integration (which can also be immensely irritating when it doesn't work for some vague reason) while using Linux as my main OS.
Nameless Voice on 13/9/2016 at 19:58
I keep thinking that I should move to Linux, since each new version of Windows looks less and less appealing to me. Microsoft continue to push awful ribbon interfaces that I don't want and other awful UI disimprovements, remove features that I like (such as being able to search inside files natively, broken since Windows 2000), while also adding more telemetry and spyware.
The reason that I don't, apart from that I'm already a Windows power user, is because most of my favourite programs and games run on Windows.
I don't want to have to use Gimp or Blender just because I'm not using Windows, since I don't like or want to learn their bizarre interfaces.
heywood on 13/9/2016 at 21:22
Quote Posted by Chade
I have become accustomed to using tiling window managers over the years, and find the ergonomics of other window managers to be a bit painful by comparison. Currently this only works well on Linux (I haven't tried one for OS X or Windows that wasn't buggy and/or laggy and/or a resource hog). Not exactly a mainstream option, admittedly.
I've tried a couple of tiling window managers in the past, dwm and Ion. For old school development work where the vast majority of windows you interact with are text mode (text editors, terminals with shells, info, man, etc.), a tiling WM is awesome. With partially transparent windows and a nice dark wallpaper behind, they can also be pretty nice to look at. Back when I was stuck using CDE on commercial UNIX, I would often use a maximized Emacs as a tiling window manager. But when I'm using mostly GUI applications, I found myself frequently wasting time adjusting tile sizing and layout or trying to make floating windows in dwm do what they weren't designed to. The best compromise I've found is on Mac OS X using one of the multiple grid-based window placement add-ons, which allow you to quickly set up tiling when you want it. I've used Moom and Better Snap Tool.
Quote Posted by Renzatic
To me, Gnome 3 is the most straightforward of all the Linux desktops, and barely requires any tweaking at all. I'll install the (
http://www.android100.org/uploadfile/2015/1231/20151231013711_0.gif) Arc Theme, change the fonts to taste, install a couple of convenient shell extensions for poops and giggles, and I'm done with it. It takes all of about five minutes.
The thing I like about it the most is that it's the most out of the way DE I've ever used. When I have something like Expose, I don't need a taskbar at the bottom of the screen for window management. I just flick my wrist to the top left corner of the screen, and get a display of all my open windows and virtual desktops all in one go. When you're in an application, all your screen space is dedicated to that application alone. The only OS specific thing is that tiny bar along the top of the screen.
Though I will admit that Gnome 3 does take some adjusting to, especially if you've used Windows all your life. I can understand why some people don't like it at first, because it doesn't do anything the "normal" way. It's weird even when compared to OSX, which it's arguably more akin to, though still not exactly the same. Once you get used to it though, you can fly between windows and manage open applications like it ain't no thing.
I spend the vast majority of my time in Win10 these days, simply because MS finally got around to adding every single UI feature I've always in Windows. A good expose-alike, virtual desktops, scroll on mouse over, all that good stuff. But there are still times when I find myself missing the way Gnome did things. It is, to me, the major reason why I liked using Linux.
Don't get me wrong, I like my tweaked GNOME 3 a lot better than GNOME 2 or Unity or KDE. I added an Alt Tab extension, replaced the Activities menu with the Frippery Applications Menu, added Dash to Dock placed on the left side of the screen where it doesn't take up vertical real estate, added Drop Down Terminal which is handy as hell, added some keybindings e.g. for workspace switching, played with some fonts, and tweaked a bunch of settings. But out of the box, I didn't like it very much.
FWIW, I never found use for Expose in its original form. Like the Dock zoom, I felt Expose was designed for those scatterbrained professor types with their cluttered offices and desks buried in piles of paper who end up with 100 items in their Dock and 50 of them are open. The Dock never scaled that well, so Expose was an aid to find windows when your Dock got too full. I never really had that problem. I do use Mission Control since they incorporated multiple spaces. Win 10 Task View is better.
Renzatic on 13/9/2016 at 22:35
Quote Posted by mensch
Arc looks really nice!
One of the things that bothered me the most about the various Linux DEs (and Windows' UI as well), coming from an OS X background, is the lack of a global application menu. In OS X all the application's menus are in the top bar, while in Linux DEs and Windows toolbars explicitly belong to a window. I believe Ubuntu tried to get the same behaviour of a global toolbar working across all application toolkits but ultimately abandoned this effort.
Also the interconnectedness of various services in OS X (notifications, search, contacts, etc.) is something that was just starting to develop in the Linux world when I tried various distributions (KDE's Akonadi and Nepomuk for example). I missed that level of integration (which can also be immensely irritating when it doesn't work for some vague reason) while using Linux as my main OS.
That interconnectedness of all things is one of the best selling points of OSX. Everything works and behaves the way you expect it to right out of the box on OSX, and always plays well with others. While I won't say it's a vastly superior OS compared to the rest, there is a smoothness there you can't get elsewhere.
Though I have a love/hate affair with global application menus. I like the fact it's consistent, and clears up a bit of clutter. I don't like the fact that, if you're on a big screen, it's a little bit of a pain in the ass if you're working with a bunch unmaximized windows.
Renzatic on 13/9/2016 at 22:50
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
The reason that I don't, apart from that I'm already a Windows power user, is because most of my favourite programs and games run on Windows.
I don't want to have to use Gimp or Blender just because I'm not using Windows, since I don't like or want to learn their bizarre interfaces.
It's funny. I used to badmouth Blender all the time. Now I want to take up for it.
Though I'm guessing you're using either Max or Cinema4D, since all the rest of the big 3D editors are available for Linux. As far as all that goes, the only thing I'd ever miss if I switched over to Linux exclusively would be Photoshop. I've got Blender, Modo, and now the Substance programs, available natively. But nothing...
nothing...comes close to comparing to PS. It sure as hell isn't GIMP. As much as I tried to love it, I can't do it. It's clunky, stupid, and makes me mad.
...well, there is Krita. It holds up surprisingly well in a direct comparison, and
could work as a PS replacement if you really push yourself. I've been using it as an alternative for the past 6 months.
But still, it's not Photoshop. Nothing is. Krita's good, but I still miss way too much when I use it. As much as I'd like to get away with not paying an extra $10 a month for a single program, I'll probably be resubbing to Adobe Cloud if I want to get serious with my editing again.
Chade on 13/9/2016 at 23:08
Quote Posted by heywood
For old school development work where the vast majority of windows you interact with are text mode (text editors, terminals with shells, info, man, etc.), a tiling WM is awesome. With partially transparent windows and a nice dark wallpaper behind, they can also be pretty nice to look at ... But when I'm using mostly GUI applications, I found myself frequently wasting time adjusting tile sizing and layout or trying to make floating windows in dwm do what they weren't designed to.
That's fair. I always have a "full-screen" mode as one of my standard modes, and when I use something like gimp or inkscape in Linux I switch to that mode and dock all the little panels ... so not taking advantage of using a tiling window manager at all in that use-case. I only rarely dabble with those programs though, for kids birthday cards or presentations and the like.
Quote Posted by heywood
The best compromise I've found is on Mac OS X using one of the multiple grid-based window placement add-ons, which allow you to quickly set up tiling when you want it. I've used Moom and Better Snap Tool.
Also fair, although I don't find these to be anywhere near as convenient as the "real thing".
hedonicflux~~ on 14/9/2016 at 14:58
Quote Posted by Brethren
I say this honestly, not trolling at all - why do people use Linux? Strictly as a cost saving move, because it's free? It just seems like no matter how strong the community around it is, it's always going to be lacking in functionality or support compared to Windows or Mac. I've never really understood the hype around Linux.
Now as a geeky, technical project type thing, maybe I can see that. But as an everyday OS? Not as much. Maybe the real questions should be, is there anything you can do in Linux that you can't already do on a PC/Mac?
Quote:
it's always going to be lacking in functionality or support compared to Windows or Mac.
This is among the most ignorant things I've ever heard stated in my life. Like, really far up the list. And considering how ignorant people are, that's really saying something.
Linux does not lack -ANY- of the functionality of Windows or Mac OS. It indeed adds functionality. As for support, there is a gigantic world of free software for Linux that can do anything any piece of software for Win/Mac can and more. With the unfortunate exception of Gimp, for every piece of software that exists for one of the two mainstream OSes, there is an equivalent and most likely better piece of software available for Linux.
Just because your commercial garbage games don't work on Linux doesn't mean it lacks support.
And please refrain from making a statement about Linux/free software/whatever that is based on absolutely zero research in the future. The misinformation people like you spread about Linux isn't healthy for society.
hedonicflux~~ on 14/9/2016 at 15:30
Quote Posted by Chade
I have become accustomed to using tiling window managers over the years, and find the ergonomics of other window managers to be a bit painful by comparison. Currently this only works well on Linux (I haven't tried one for OS X or Windows that wasn't buggy and/or laggy and/or a resource hog). Not exactly a mainstream option, admittedly.
On the other hand, I set up GNOME 3 for my kids accounts and they found it much more intuitive then Windows. That's starting to change though as they get older, use Windows all the time at school, their friends use Windows or OS X, and they start using software that only runs or runs much better on Windows. Ecosystems trump operating systems.
Also, my younger kids took a while to learn that my laptop monitor is not a touch screen. Strange times ...
I'll never touch a desktop environment again. I don't even own a smart phone because I can't stand all the icons and swipes and crap. I hate having to even use someone else's. Makes me feel like a filthy human.
Quote Posted by heywood
I've tried a couple of tiling window managers in the past, dwm and Ion. For old school development work where the vast majority of windows you interact with are text mode (text editors, terminals with shells, info, man, etc.), a tiling WM is awesome. With partially transparent windows and a nice dark wallpaper behind, they can also be pretty nice to look at. Back when I was stuck using CDE on commercial UNIX, I would often use a maximized Emacs as a tiling window manager. But when I'm using mostly GUI applications, I found myself frequently wasting time adjusting tile sizing and layout or trying to make floating windows in dwm do what they weren't designed to. The best compromise I've found is on Mac OS X using one of the multiple grid-based window placement add-ons, which allow you to quickly set up tiling when you want it. I've used Moom and Better Snap Tool.
I've never had a problem with my tiling window manager (xmonad) and find it to be optimally efficient. I don't mess with fancy layouts. I use the default layout and typically on workspace 1 I'll have firefox open on the left, taking up about 2/3 of the screen, and three terminals to the right, with IRC running in the top one and my music player in the middle one:
Inline Image:
http://i.imgur.com/ZjhBVJQ.pngAnd there are 9 other workspaces at my disposal. I usually have Blender openned on the second. It's the most simple, intuitive, and efficient way to compute that I'm aware of. I'm not sure in what ways dwm differs from xmonad. I can't imagine they're all that different. If you'd like a quick run-down of hotkeys to give you an idea of how xmonad works, I'd be happy to provide.
Renault on 14/9/2016 at 15:35
I probably should have prefaced my comments by saying that 90% of what I do on my PC is gaming.
Now I know you like to be Mr Fight The Power and you hate AAA gaming, but you have to admit if gaming if your sole activity on a computer, Windows is the best way to go. This is indisputable.
hedonicflux~~ on 14/9/2016 at 15:47
Right. And people who actually like to play the vast majority of games being produced nowdays are probably best off sticking to Windows because they obviously like shit.
