fett on 25/2/2016 at 14:43

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For the record (being one of the aforementioned) I don't think he's talentless - the guy obviously has the goods in certain respects. It's his own overstatement of those talents, and his audience's blind acceptance of those statements that drive me a little nuts. He's not special or unique because he has feelings. Yes, he's had a bigger impact that anyone else in that regard, but other rappers were riding that train in the late 90's. I may be tracing this wrong, but it seems like Kanye was able to pull in a wider audience, specifically the gangsta rap fans, than those 90's artists.

On top of that, I tend to be a bit of an asshole when I feel like a celebrity is contributing to the dumbing down of the masses, and Kanye is at the top of my list. When he says, "I don't read books, I would never want no autograph from a book [sic WTF?]. I am a proud non-reader of books." When he sings the first 3 notes of the Bohemian Rhapsody (off pitch), turns the mic to the crowd, and then is lauded for "covering a Queen song." When he claims to be more influential than Michael Jackson and the Beatles (patently un-true on a million levels). This is the stuff that makes ME roll my eyes and switch over to asshole mode, and unfortunately, I tend to direct it as his fans, which isn't fair. I don't struggle with his music. I even like some of it. Our society is dumb enough as it is without making Kanye the king of the dumb, which is kind of what's happened the last 5-6 years.

For my own idle-curiosity, I'd love someone to explain the context of "I wanna fuck you on the sink, then get you something to drink." Because I've listened to the whole album front to back about six times now and I very much think by this lyric he means he wants to fuck her on the sink then get her something to drink. Because drink rhymes with sink. What, pray tell, is the context I'm missing here? Humor the old school PE/NWA fan that can't seem to dig anything more than lack of a thesaurus out of of this lyric. (No thesaurus because he's a proud non-reader of books, I guess).

fett on 25/2/2016 at 15:53

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Sorry. See what I mean? I really turn into an asshole, and I'm genuinely sorry. I don't know why. I think here (at TTLG especially) I assume Kanye fans are objective enough not to buy into the image, and I get the entertainment side of the whole thing. I honestly don't even consider that you guys would think I'm including you in my generalizations, but I know it comes off that way (reading up). Either way, when I make those comments, I'm not talking about the people that "get it" -- I'm referring to the frothing at the mouth Kanye-is-the-messiah-of-hip-hop fans who probably don't even buy the album and only know the singles. Sorry. I'm a self-appointed asshole critic, but I don't want to take that out on friends. :p


I'm a huge Kip Winger fan. That's a rabbit hole we could explore in like fashion for months on end.

EDIT: Wait, I was talking about Kanye being dumb, I didn't say his fans were dumb. I said they bought into the hype - but we wouldn't even be having this discussion here if the people who liked his stuff were "those people." What did I say that portrayed them in an "ugly" light? It's true that a large majority of his fans are smitten with his image, no? I think his fans that can objectively discuss these things (like we're doing here) are sadly in the minority.

fett on 25/2/2016 at 17:34

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Most Kanye fans that I know in RL are teenagers and people in their early twenties who really have no contextual basis on which to consider him or his music on a larger scope. Everyone in this thread does (and has, so far). There's generally not a lot of thought put into the meta-connotations of what he does, no objective analysis beyond "I like it." Which is fine, but those are the ones more likely to buy into the hype.

And hey, when someone, no matter who, says, "I don't like books. I would never want an autograph from a book," do I really have to point out that there's at least a modicum of reflection on his fan base? (Setting aside for a moment that he doesn't even seem to understand that books have, ya know, writers, and they don't write themselves and are incapable of giving an autograph). You guys here get the humor of the whole thing and it's no big deal, but there's not a lot going on in the guy's brainpan - which is totally aside from his music, or talent. But it's really REALLY hard to separate his purposefully anti-intellectualism from his fans, and I mean that in the most general way as possible. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. But I have a strong feeling that if I were to post a thread here saying "I hate books. Reading is dumb," there would not only be a massive pile-on, I would never be able to return the next day and say, "Hey guys, listen to these beats I made," because I would be summarily dismissed as an intentional moron. It just follows, at least to me. I don't think it reflects on his individual fans, but you have to at least have consciously decided to ignore the guy's inanity, or at least find humor in it. MUSIC ASIDE.

Stitch on 25/2/2016 at 18:06

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Who are these fans? Most Kanye fans I've met in real life are serious music fans, and part of why I started paying attention to Kanye initially was because so many of my musician friends were obsessed with the guy. As for the "singles only" accusation, despite all the talk about Yeezus and The Life of Pablo, neither album has had anything resembling a radio hit, and I can't think of any other pop music figure as hit-apathetic and album-focused as Kanye right now.

You aren't even trying to approach this topic with an open mind, dude--you've got your clear bias against Kanye and you're rearranging reality to support it. People who genuinely listen to music can't possibly find enjoyment in Kanye's music and find it exciting, no--they must have "bought into the hype" (your words) because "the emperor is totally fucking naked" (again, your words). Instead of admitting there might be something there that you just can't see, you attempt to invalidate the view of those who can see it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't give a shit whether or not you ever connect with Kanye's albums--you're the one who is missing out on some of the most vital music being released right now, so it's your loss--but when you piss all over a thread and say one wrong thing after another, it gets tiresome.

fett on 25/2/2016 at 21:07

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Like I said, this is my subjective experience with his fans in RL. I live in circles of musicians and he's a laughing stock. I don't take either side real seriously, because I do think he's talented, and I very much appreciate the fact that he's album focused (which is honestly one of the reasons I can latch on to the stuff that I do). I have my own views about his music (forgive me, I thought that's what we were discussing here). As for the hype, there's lots of it, mostly generated by himself, and whatever your subjective experience may be, it seems to me like there are a lot of people buying his stuff that don't dissect it beyond being able to dance to it. That's not the case with the people in this thread - so props. At least you have a reason for respecting what he's done beyond that basic level.

Where did I ever say no one could possibly enjoy his music? For fuck's sake, I've said about five times now that *I* enjoy some of his stuff. I've said he's talented. Just because I don't believe he's fucking Tupac re-incarnated doesn't negate any of that. I also haven't submitted anywhere that just because I don't get it, everyone else's opinion of it is invalidated. I apologized if I was being an asshole about it (and I know, I am). My "Emperor" comment was in reference to his ridiculous claim to be "better" than The Beatles and Michael Jackson. What does that even mean? It's ridiculous, and there are fans of his that actually believe it - and have said it to me, in reviews on amazon, and have even hinted at it in pieces in Rolling Stone. That is hype, plain and simple, elevating the artist above his work prematurely. If we're listening to Yeezus alongside Sgt. Pepper and Thriller in 40 years, I'll admit I was wrong - but do you *really* think that's going to happen? Either way, it doesn't matter. I listen to crap I wouldn't foist on my worst enemy. All I said was that it grated on me. And I'm allowed that, and I thought it was relevant to a discussion in which people are on both sides of the fence about him.

I'm asking simple questions that no one seems to want to answer. You claim I'm quoting his lyrics from Bound 2 out of context - I asked for context. Show me what I'm missing (your words) in this lyric. Explain the context. The guy makes stupid, anti-intellectual statements and is proud of his ignorance. Am I wrong? What would you say to someone who claims to be a "proud non-reader of books?" I don't think there's any argument that he's a douche, but that has nothing to do with his music. I do however think that his antics lend quite a bit of curiosity and consumer demand for his product, mostly with younger fans who don't have the where-with-all or interest to examine further. You're not even calling me out for any of those observations, but rather railing at me because I don't care for every single song he's ever written and don't think he's Jesus come again. Seems to me like you're the one losing your shit over someone else not bowing down to Kanye. It's an opinion, and we're sharing opinions here. Sorry mine doesn't agree with yours, (I guess) but neither of us is going to be objectively right about it. I could take you to serious task over calling it "some of the most vital music being released today" because that's a subjective opinion unless you can foretell the future. It's your opinion. Keep it in good health! Why get so worked up over mine?

Edit: no froghawk. Apparently everyone who listens to Kanye is a Yale honor grad who spend hours contemplating the oh-so-deep context of fucking hard on the sink. I don't care that he's popular, but there are other people right now who, in terms of cultural impact and having something so say, IMO deserve way more attention that Kanye. But I digress...