Azaran on 24/6/2013 at 00:23
Thief 3 was a great game. It was mainly the tiny, cramped levels that annoyed me, and the lack of continuity with the previous games especially with regard to the City, but it was still a Thief game, and part of the problem with the levels was that the team was rushed into finishing the game before it was ready (and were forced to dumb down the game to make it work with a crappy console). But aside from that it was a great game, it had Stephen Russell in it, it had fantasy elements, undead, and pretty much everything that makes Thief what it is. And yes, the Cradle was a masterpiece.
Chade on 24/6/2013 at 00:25
Quote Posted by Brethren
I'm a Cradle fan too, and I'm not a TDS hater, but do you really believe this? Better than anything in T1 or T2?
For me it would either be RttHC or Cradle, and I think Cradle edges RttHC out.
I don't think any individual level in Thief 2 really comes close to the best levels in thief 1 and 3, although the average quality in thief 2 is probably the highest in the series.
Renzatic on 24/6/2013 at 00:28
Quote Posted by Chade
I don't think any individual level in Thief 2 really comes close to the best levels in thief 1 and 3, although the average quality in thief 2 is probably the highest in the series.
This is what I think as well. I remember Thief 2 mostly for the excellent fanmissions moreso than the original missions themselves. The best overall Thief game is Gold, and T3 has the best plot of the bunch, along with the highest shining points of the series (though admittedly they exist right alongside the worst lows of the series as well).
Renault on 24/6/2013 at 00:39
I think you guys are selling T2 a bit short. My fave is Thief Gold also, mainly because I love the magic element in Thief (which was absent in T2 and it looks like T4 too). Still, Life of the Party, Shipping...and Receiving, and Trail of Blood were all excellent levels. Some would argue for Sabotage at Soulforge too, but I realize that's not for everyone.
The Cradle was good, but I would still put levels like Down in The Bonehoard, The Sword, The Haunted Cathedral, Return to the Cathedral, and The Lost City above The Cradle. Maybe even Cragscleft and Assassins too.
Chade on 24/6/2013 at 00:59
Life of the Party is a great level, and so are many other thief 2 levels. Personally speaking, though, I find all thief 2 levels to be a little bit bland. Take shipping and receiving, for example. Great level, lots to do, lots of interesting little things to find out. But ultimately, where's the tension? Even with LotP, although it has a little more drive, is still lacking in tension IMO. Compare that to the thief 1 mission you mentioned: either you're isolated, or the environments are hostile, or it's personal (assassins), etc.
I would definitely rate the Cradle above most of the Thief 1 missions you listed, although they are pretty awesome.
Starker on 24/6/2013 at 06:29
I think the problem with Cradle is that it works exactly once. It relies too much on scripted events for its own good.
Each of the stories had big problems. T1 took a long time to get the main storyline going and T2 took a nosedive around the Life of the Party level, but T1 and T2 delivered the story in small discrete chunks and let you fill most of it in with your imagination. T1 and T2 weren't heavily story driven games, it was mostly just an excuse for the missions... fetch the air talisman, fetch the earth talisman, fetch the water talisman, etc. T3 tried to be more story-driven, but the problem with cutscene based story delivery is that it leaves little room for deeper characterization. It tried to do intrigue and drama with characters we knew nothing about.
Also, T1 and T2 had more filmnoirish plots where things just kept getting worse for the protagonist and featured proper bittersweet film noir endings.
For the new game, I would've liked to see a new story with Garrett in the background. T3 set us up for a great opportunity in that regard. We could have a female anti-hero who could be a chip off the old block, basically, and it would be entirely fresh, considering how rare female anti-heroes are in games. The new missions could feature more espionage stuff too, with her running errands for her old man in the new, improved order of the keepers. Oh, and the keepers could be a mysterious and secretive organisation that relies on knowledge and subtle manipulation of events, not glyph magic, prophesies and rampaging assassins.
ganac on 24/6/2013 at 06:39
Quote Posted by bartekb81
You're worried of new fans already? Really? I would rather worry about the game itself than this. I don't care if this game will be understood by new fans or if they already know Thief mythology. I don't think so called "new fans" should be a priority in this project, either.
I'm sorry thinking of the future is beyond your capacity.
Quote Posted by Chade
*sigh*
Having typed out and deleted a few expletive-laden rants, let me just say that I cannot possibly imagine any opinion a new fan could hold that would be half as obnoxious as this thread.
I'm sorry. I'll just change the title, just for you cupcake.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Nah blad, The Cradle is legit the best Thief level ever.
If I didn't severely dislike you already, I'd agree.
Quote Posted by demagogue
We had new fans coming in when TDS came out, so it's not a new thing & it works itself out. Some came with a blast of energy with a lot of fanfics and fanart and stuff with just the Garrett of TDS, which were amusing in their own way. They recognized they were new to the scene but wanted to show they were fans anyway, and many of them went back to play the previous games. Some didn't stay around that long, since once the TDS energy passed they passed with it... Then others got into the FMs and previous games, like our dear Dia, and did stick around longer.
Oh Builder I hope so.
SubJeff on 24/6/2013 at 07:07
Quote Posted by Brethren
I'm a Cradle fan too, and I'm not a TDS hater, but do you really believe this? Better than anything in T1 or T2?
If I really think about it it was. When I played it. But I have such fond nostalgia for T1&2 that I'm actually not so sure.
I prefer Thief 1 to 2 because I like the magical plot better and because even Thief 2 couldn't give me the O.M.G. this game is AWESOME feeling I got when I really got into Thief 1.
But the levels in Thief 2 are, technically, better. Life of the Party was so frakking awesome because Thieves Highway YES. I guess that's why I don't mind parkour bits in reThief - playing Mirrors Edge just made me think "we now have the tech for an awesome Thieves Highway game/level".
Thief 3s lack of rope arrows severely limited the enjoyment for me overall. That lack of vertical flexibility really sucks.
Quote Posted by ganac
If I didn't severely dislike you already, I'd agree
Such perversions of logic are purely the domain of the weak mind, failure to overcome your prejudice in the face of facts that you secretly believe only lends credence to this deduction. Free yourself, become detached, become balanced.
bukary on 24/6/2013 at 09:25
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Nah blad, The Cradle is legit the best Thief level ever.
No! The best Thief level ever is The Sword! :mad:
I'll never forget these whispers...
Azaran on 24/6/2013 at 09:33
Quote Posted by bukary
No! The best Thief level ever is The Sword! :mad:
I'll never forget these whispers...
The Sword, Assassins, Lost City, Haunted Cathedral are my favourites in T1. Though to be honest there's not a single mission I don't like in T1, except the Thieves Guild.
T2: LOTP. T2X: The Cure. T3: The Cradle
