heywood on 12/12/2023 at 12:46
Epic just won their case against Google here in the US, after losing the same case against Apple. The difference was that a jury decided the Google case, whereas a Apple somehow avoided a jury and the judge ruled in their favor. Now this is headed to SCOTUS to resolve the conflicting outcomes.
Nameless Voice on 12/12/2023 at 16:25
Only seems like common sense to me, all of those big companies are definitely pushing various monopolies.
It's also ridiculous that there can be trials which don't have juries. I guess their Sixth Amendment somehow doesn't apply to companies?
Not sure what this will actually change for consumers though. It's already possible to sideload apps on Android.
Will it affect the 30% Google Tax somehow?
Will it force Google to make their Play Store less awful? I've always felt the biggest issue with Android apps is that the Play Store's search algorithms are (intentionally) awful, trying to push ad- and microtransaction-bloated apps above everything else. Personally, I never buy anything there because it's too hard to find anything decent, so I just gave up caring.
Yakoob on 13/12/2023 at 01:22
it was, deleted ;p
Pyrian on 13/12/2023 at 02:32
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
I guess their Sixth Amendment somehow doesn't apply to companies?
The sixth amendment begins, "In all criminal prosecutions..." It doesn't apply to civil trials at all, no matter the participants.
heywood on 13/12/2023 at 14:08
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
Will it affect the 30% Google Tax somehow?
I think that's what Epic's suits are all about. I don't know if anyone is accusing Google and Apple of collusion and price fixing, but they have a duopoly, they both charge 30%, and they both use technical measures to block any competitors from offering an alternative retail store front. If Epic wins, it could open the Android and iOS platforms to alternative app stores and direct sales from app developers, and Google and Apple will have to reduce their app store commission to remain the preferred gatekeeper. In Android land, it might also lead to more walled gardens. If Samsung could bypass the Google Play Store and make their customers get everything from their own store, I think they would.
Nameless Voice on 13/12/2023 at 21:11
Quote Posted by Pyrian
The sixth amendment begins, "In all criminal prosecutions..." It doesn't apply to civil trials at all, no matter the participants.
I don't know anything about law, but surely if having a monopoly is illegal, then that should count as a criminal prosecution?
I'm sure it doesn't work like that, though.
Quote Posted by heywood
If Samsung could bypass the Google Play Store and make their customers get everything from their own store, I think they would.
You can already have your own stores on Android. There's F-Droid. Amazon used to have one, etc.
You have to side-load the app-store app though.
heywood on 13/12/2023 at 23:27
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
I don't know anything about law, but surely if having a monopoly is illegal, then that should count as a criminal prosecution?
I'm sure it doesn't work like that, though.
IANAL either. But the main difference between criminal and civil law is the role of the state. Criminal law is enforced and prosecuted by the government on behalf of the public. Here in the US, there are anti-trust laws making it a crime to fix prices, rig bids/tenders, collude with a competitor to divide the market, etc. The Department of Justice has an antitrust division who enforces them, but they tend to go after companies with big fines and rarely prosecute individuals.
Here we have Google and Apple owning the mobile market between the two of them and both taking a 30% cut for access. If there was any evidence that the two companies colluded to price fix, the DoJ would (or should) prosecute them because that's a criminal offense.
Epic isn't accusing them of that, as far as I know.
Quote:
You can already have your own stores on Android. There's F-Droid. Amazon used to have one, etc.
You have to side-load the app-store app though.
Exactly. The vast majority of users don't know what side loading is or how to do it. And big companies like Epic developing for the platform aren't going to ask users to learn how to side load or violate their ToS to install their product. It is ironic that Epic won their case against Google but lost against Apple when the latter is way more controlling.
Nameless Voice on 14/12/2023 at 11:05
I don't think side-loading is against the ToS? It's a supported feature, albeit one they discourage you from using (by having to go into advanced settings to enable it.)
Didn't Fortnite require sideloading, since they didn't want to pay Google's 30%? I'm not sure if that's still the case, as I have little interest in Fortnite itself.
heywood on 14/12/2023 at 13:25
It depends on what you are sideloading.
Epic tried offering Fortnite through sideloading and the experiment didn't go well, so they sued Google. Google blocked Fortnite from the Play Store when Epic bypassed Google's services for in-game transactions. Apple also blocked Fortnite from their App Store.