DDL on 2/10/2009 at 12:30
Plus it's a much better game decision (in my opinion) to account for "players might be murderous dicks" by actually allowing them to be so, and then letting them deal with the consequences, than it is to either make most people mysteriously invincible for no good reason, or to only have characters speaking from behind defense screens or in "weapons-free" zones.
Though I suspect that "for the sheer fucking principle of it" also factored into Jonas's thinking.
...but with increasing regret as the levels of interlaced flagtriggers got to stupid proportions.. :D
ZylonBane on 2/10/2009 at 13:32
Quote Posted by Papy
I like to play games, but I have little interest playing with a toy.
The way you've been talking in this thread, I'd say that's an understatement (not that a disinterest in play isn't pretty damn broken in the head all by itself). Sounds more like you have an active neurotic phobia against playing with toys. Like you're constantly evaluating your gameplay experiences for any hint of dread "toy"-ness. Which, apparently, includes all forms of player self-expression.
Sheeesh... crazy people...
ASHASSIN on 2/10/2009 at 16:12
Heres a thought - stop analyzing everything and bitching about whether its a this or that and start enjoying it, like most people when presented with games/toys.:tsktsk:
mgeorge on 2/10/2009 at 16:38
Quote Posted by ASHASSIN
Heres a thought - stop analyzing everything and bitching about whether its a this or that and start enjoying it, like most people when presented with games/toys.:tsktsk:
Haha. I agree with this. This game is as good as, if not better than DE in many aspects.
I don't believe your emotional attachments to the NPC's are quite the same as the original, (although I do like Evil), but it is a
different game. The simple fact is. It's a whole lot of fun to play and if you enjoyed the original, you're probably going to enjoy this.
Jonas Wæver on 2/10/2009 at 17:26
Quote Posted by DDL
Though I suspect that "for the sheer fucking principle of it" also factored into Jonas's thinking.
Absolutely!
I mean my argument about the strategic choices is valid, but it wasn't the reason we did it - we did it because we are suckers for choice, for supporting as many different play styles as possible, and for merging toy play with game play. The awesome thing about games like TNM is that we support players who aren't interested in the toyness of games as much as we support players who are. In fact that's sort of the point :)
And of course we thought "you can kill fucking
anybody!" would look hella awesome on the features list! :sly:
Papy on 3/10/2009 at 02:44
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Sounds more like you have an active neurotic phobia against playing with toys.
No, my "active neurotic phobia" is about people who like to believe their toys are games, because that way they can still have the illusion of "winning". I guess I should never have read 1984 when I was a kid. Newspeak frightened me too much.
heywood on 3/10/2009 at 03:54
Quote Posted by Papy
No, my "active neurotic phobia" is about people who like to believe their toys are games, because that way they can still have the illusion of "winning". I guess I should never have read 1984 when I was a kid. Newspeak frightened me too much.
I'm not sure the people you're thinking of care that much about "winning" while playing games that you can't really lose. Like Pyrian already said, any video game that allows you to save & reload is not a "game" as you've defined it, but so what? You still enjoyed playing DX, right? You still call it a video game, right?
In the past, when you've said that challenge is an important aspect of gameplay for you, I've generally agreed. But the distinction you are trying to make between toys and games in this thread seems pointless to me. It's like looking at a spectrum of grey and trying to decide where to place the dividing line between black and white.
I only just started playing TNM (before my HD crashed :mad:), but my initial impressions are very positive. I'm pretty sure that anybody who liked DX enough to still be posting here will like it too: this means you. So let's play the damn thing and reserve our meta-commentary for after.
Papy on 3/10/2009 at 15:32
I agree that a lot of people here don't care that much about "winning". But other than here, I'd say this is an important aspect of video game, at least for some demographic. You will certainly find people who think they're "good" at video games because they played BioShock at the hardest setting. One thing is for sure, there are a lot of people who complain that a particular video game is too easy, and yet also complain the quicksave and quickload options take too long. Why don't they play at a lower difficulty level so they don't need to save every 30 seconds and reload every 2 minutes?
heywood on 3/10/2009 at 16:11
Overcoming a challenge != winning. If you want to feel like you've beaten someone or something, you're playing the wrong games. There is no such thing as winning or losing when playing a single player campaign. They are designed for you to complete them!
ZylonBane on 3/10/2009 at 16:34
Quote Posted by heywood
Overcoming a challenge != winning.
Wrong. Stop helping.
