Ziemanskye on 25/8/2005 at 14:38

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I've got the PS2 version of DX, and it was actually quite good, and mostly faithful to the pc version.

Not having to type passwords and keycodes was a good thing, since it A meant you had to come across the code in the game and B tends to annoy me as a concept in games. Unfortuantely it also mostly removes the little puzzle ones where you only get part of the code or can guess it from what you know of the world/characters. Some kind of balance between auto-entry and incomplete/unknown attemps needs to be though up perhaps (though that invalidates point A a bit...)

Not having a keyring you had to select to open doors was just as big an issue, but one I'm in favour of - though I'd kind of like a sort of off-hand opening the door animation and not be able to fire briefly because of it.

And I liked the PS2 version's inventory, because you still had to do a little manangement (which things do you want on the quick-cycle list?) But it was simple and easy, and let you carry more stuff than the PC version did.

Removing the skills for IW was a bit of an odd decision, though it streamlines the game and makes the testing easier (less erratic variables to monitor), but since the skills in DX weren't so greatly used, and some I never bothered with at all, then something had to give for the sequal - they just got removed rather than modified.

And I missed the volume of flavour text in IW - the talking news stands just weren't (I feel) an acceptable alternative to having newspapers and datacubes and books everywhere, though it might have been a plot focussed design decision (by which I mean this makes it really obvious when/where you can get updates on what the aftermath of what you've done elsewhere in the world is, and there are less parallel threads like the Railgun/Microwave power emitter in DX).

I haven't tried MGS3 - I realises I didn't care after the first PSone MGS game, though I've heard it has a good health system (and here, that it apparently has a good Inventory system)

moop on 31/8/2005 at 17:10

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First, making one-word posts is very bad forum ettiquette, and yours seems unnecessarily indignant toward me personally. Did you expect me to take it some other way? Second, my post was a continuation of the reasons why DX:IW was limited by console constraints, addressing what AxTng1 mentioned:



To see the limitations of the console, play both the PC version and the console version styles of HUD, and give your views. I posted because the differences and shortcomings of the final-production console HUD are obvious to me. I'll offer reasons if you want, but I'm not going to interpret your question when all you say is "And?"

My point is just that console games ported from PC versions suffer from necessary limitations of the interface, including DX or DX:IW, or I'd suggest, most any other game.

moop on 31/8/2005 at 18:03

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No, I haven't played Syndicate... was it ported from PC to console? Link?

My point was that console ports changed what DX was, and what DX:IW was limited to being.

Although the omission of the White House, Texas, and Moon scenarios were removed from the original PC version, omissions from DX:IW and other newer games aren't because of porting complexities, but (as with any software development) because of budget limitations, and the potential to maximize profits by cutting development costs. In DX:IW's case, minimizing cost and maximizing profit required expanding the original product into the X-Box line while still getting the final product out in time for the 2003 Christmas rush.

So for DX, the direction of expansion (PC to PS2) wasn't limited during development, but was made to fit the original, afterwards, while the addition of additional scenarios, may have been. Conversely, for DX:IW, the development was limited during development to accomodate both PC and console versions. Hope that clears up my original point.

moop on 31/8/2005 at 19:19

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Fair enough, but most of the people who visit these forums are aware of the shortcomings of DX:IW, at least compared to the original DX, in both plot and (I would argue) interface. Not elaborating on the images and asking "what could have been" is just a jab at DX:IW's failure to match the success of the original in that interface department. I've posted elsewhere about how a keyboard, while not necessary, does allow the original DX to be far more versatile, and consequently, immersive, although some disagree. Some would argue that DX:IW is "more streamlined" because of the console interface. Although Harvey Smith probably thought that "streamlining" with the console interface would make the game more immersive, it's a matter of compromise (and compromise under a deadline, no less). DX:IW had fewer menus, but scrolling through them takes longer. Yes, they can be customized, but not to the degree which one could in the PC version of DX.

I don't mean to get too far off the topic of the omitted Mead/Texas/Moon scenarios though...

Karkianman on 31/8/2005 at 22:28

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I think pretty much everyone recognizes the shortcomings of DXIW. But I really doubt the the Xbox is the main culprit. In terms of controls and interface, the only difference in complexity was the lack of keypads, and the consolidation of menus, only the former of which is hindered by a console.

Thats ignoring the point that if you are making an action/adventure game with more buttons than a controller can offer, its probably a little too complex to begin with. No action game should need to use more than 10 buttons and one or 2 tactile responses, and thats about what a controller for the xbox offers. 6 game buttons, 2 thumbsticks each with a button, a start button, a select button, and 2 pressure sensitive triggers. Let me see if I can squeeze DX1 down to that.

Right trigger, fire. Left trigger, use, reload, and secondary. Left thumbstick, move. Right thumbstick, camera. Left thumbbutton, crouch. Right thumb button, walk. Black button, inventory. White button, health. Select, if any augs are on turns all off. If none are on, it activates a player configured aug combination. A, go down through augs. Y, go up through augs. X, go right through inventory. B, go right through inventory. Preset aug combinations are done by using select while cycling through augs, highlighting which ones you want. A light touch on the left trigger activates the current items secondary, aka scope, wp rockets, and sabot shells. A full trigger depression activates the use, and reload if nothing is selected.

There. DX1 controls, with as far as I can tell little functionality lost, on an xbox controller, off the top of my head.