Karkianman on 24/8/2005 at 02:57
I see you took a bad picture, since the HUD was too far from the edges of the screen, a bad color, a high opacity.
I might suggest a slightly bluer color, if need be go into to ini to make it closer to the edges, and set the opacity lower, as well as make most of it disappear when idle.
The first example was just a bit too generic and unusable. The new one is much better, since you don't have to look as far from the center of the screen.
And seriously, cut the console bullshit. That was the HUD Warren originally wanted for DX1, but was unable to convey to the artists. I have no idea why people think its console, since consoles are NOT where you go to test new HUD concepts.
Just about the only things in the game that mattered and were affected by consoles were performance and map sizes. Thats it. Not the story, gameplay, HUD, health, or anything.
Dr. Dumb_lunatic on 24/8/2005 at 10:27
Well, there's the whole 'simplification' issue, too. I was under the impression that adding skills, elaborate inventory, multiple ammotypes etc was all considered a bit too complicated to be handled via control-pad.
moop on 24/8/2005 at 14:47
Quote Posted by Dr. Dumb_lunatic
Well, there's the whole 'simplification' issue, too. I was under the impression that adding skills, elaborate inventory, multiple ammotypes etc was all considered a bit too complicated to be handled
by the typical console user.Fixed your quote. :cheeky:
Also - Karkianman, I have a couple of early DX2 production trailer videos if you want them. PM me if you're interested. I made that screenshot from one of them.
Karkianman on 25/8/2005 at 00:21
Wha?! I never saw screenshots for DX2 before the eyeball interface ones :rolleyes:
I've seen them. Many times. They were all we had for a couple years (I was on the IS boards since maybe January 2002?).
And no. Skills, inventory, etc were not "too complicated" for a control pad. People everywhere had issues with the interface of DX1. It was actually called streamlining, and basically HS/WS wanted to help the played spend more time playing the game instead of looking at menus.
Many games on consoles use multiple ammo types. Kotor, Fable, GTA:SA, and quite a few other relatively well selling games had an inventory and skills.
If your game cannot be easily played on a gamepad (minus aiming), and its on the PC, it should not be an action game, shooting game, etc.
You don't need things like seperate buttons for every little action. And in case you didn't know, DX for the PS2 was actually a bit popular, and caused many people to come to the PC version.
TheGreatGodPan on 25/8/2005 at 00:53
Wow, I thought my first post after getting my computer back up would have been more significant. Anyway, getting rid of the skills was NOT what Warren wanted. I believe he said in a preview that when Harvey told him he yelled "But then it's not an RPG anymore!". I don't have any information to back this up, but I am guessing that while the HUD was likely and idea from the original (it kind of makes sense for the character), the inventory and lack of datapads/computer screens was due to the console development and unified ammo was just a stupid idea that didn't have anything to do with anything that they threw in for god knows what reason. I don't know of any other console games that use that system (unless you count ports of Wolfenstein 3D).
Karkianman on 25/8/2005 at 01:05
I had never read Warren's specific thoughts on the skills, so I put HS/WS ;)
And I really don't think the simpler inventory, datapad, etc. were because of the console. The first game for the PC had alot of complaints from average users and advanced users. The datapad had too many screens with too little information. People (including me) hated playing jigsaw with the inventory just to get that little thing in when there were enough squares not arranged in the right order. There was massive skill and aug balance issues, with redundancy and such.
HS pretty much took all those criticisms and went from one extreme to the other. He over compensated, and pissed off alot of people.
moop on 25/8/2005 at 05:03
I never said skills were too complicated for a control pad, and nobody I know who played DX had trouble with the controls or interface. My comment regarding the average console user was also meant to imply that the nuances which made the original DX so interesting, i.e. typing in a username and password while hacking computer terminals, or typing in a numeric keypad sequence on the player's own actual keypad, are inaccessible to console users - the element of thought, of guessing passwords or keypad codes based on clues, is all handled by "Button X." So yes, the original complexity, at least to any degree which added some depth and character to the original DX, is missing in DX2 specifically because the console interface doesn't allow for it. A shame, really.
I never played the PS2 version of DX, so I don't know how it handled usernames and passwords. Selecting each letter with a controller is hardly convenient, though. I hope people didn't need to endure that in DX1 for the PS2.
Karkianman on 25/8/2005 at 05:12
That I admit is kind of a limitation. But a way around it on the controller would be to have the login and password entered automatically if both were known, and if either or both weren't know then the player could use either an onscreen keyboard, or voice activated letters.
Personally on the PC, I hated having to switch between the interface and datasheet to get the login. It would have been far better if they at least had the datasheet shown alongside pads, or if they had the pads remember keys, so you could type in the login, go to your sheet, then back to the pad and type a log in.
The game wasnt worse because you didnt have skills or a jigsaw inventory, or because conversations werent recorded, or because you had things auto entered. It was worse because it was shorter, lacked dramatic moments, lacked any real actual freedom, lacked consequances, and had really small maps. And thats one thing that the XBox is largely to blame for (but as T3ed shows, its also the engine itself).
If you blame the console for something, blame it for the right thing. If you think the game sucks, point out what actually matters.
Hell Kitty on 25/8/2005 at 09:41
The PS2 version of DX automatically entered passwords in you knew them. I actually prefer this method, as it prevents any cheating by knowing passwords you shouldn't.
You can enter numbers on a keypad just fine on a console, the Splinter Cell games do this. You can also enter in usernames and passwords using an on-screen keyboard, as seen in many games that allow you to name your character. Such a method is definitely annoying compared to using an actual keyboard, but it's there.
It's been a hell of a long time since I tried the PS2 version of DX, but I seem to recall it having an inventory system similar to the Metal Gear Solid games, just not as nice. The change in the inventory system has nothing to do with consoles. The "jigsaw" type inventory, as Karkianman puts it, can be seen Resident Evil 4, hell that game even allows you to rotate objects to get them to fit better. I've always preferred the inventory tetris system, but that's neither here nor there. If devs want to know how to streamline the inventory, they should look at Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater - all the functionally of DX.
The idea that skills were removed due to consoles in so insanely ridiculous, considering the amount of RPGs available for console. So many thing that people blame of consoles, like unified ammo, are in reality just poor (or disliked) design decisions on the part of Ion Storm.
Dr. Dumb_lunatic on 25/8/2005 at 11:20
"The idea that skills were removed due to consoles in so insanely ridiculous, considering the amount of RPGs available for console."
Not really insanely ridiculous: it's entirely possible they removed them due to consoles. It just might've been a bad decision.
It was..a bad call, Ripley. A bad call.
