The Looking Glass Studios legacy and what I expect from Thief

june gloom on 16/3/2013 at 08:44

I'm too lazy to look it up but it was the predecessor to Inverted Manse. It had Cult in the title.

jtr7 on 16/3/2013 at 08:46

Found one!

Tuttocomb's Tomb:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0jk0u62bEw#t=10m11s)

I knew it was possible since Thief Gold had the Fire Shadows.

EDIT: dethtoll was probably thinking of "Cult of Resurrection":
(http://www.thiefmissions.com/walkthroughs/cultv1.html)

Quote:

Sneak out of this room and up the stairs. (This can be a bit tricky because there's a patrolling guard who carries a lantern as well as an archer (not present on Thief) that stands at the top of the stairs.)

webe123 on 16/3/2013 at 09:39

Quote Posted by Briareos H

Since it was too long for the "rescue our reputation" thread, I'm moving this here. In the light of what Looking Glass Studios created with their games, I think the new Thief will be rescued in my eyes and worthy of the LGS lineage if it keeps all the innovations the previous games brought to the table while adding something fundamentally new, whether on a technical level or on a gameplay level, and if it has a lot of replay value because of that. With the exception of Thief 2, which was more of the delightful same with a few minor additions, every single game produced by Looking Glass brought something to gaming as a whole . . .

I do not know if you realize this...but...Looking Glass Studios...WENT OUT OF BUSINESS! They are NOT making the new thief game. Some may have ties with LGS, I do not know about that, but it will NOT be what LGS had envisioned. And a Ninja Garrett is not looking good.

Briareos H on 16/3/2013 at 10:09

Thanks j. It's a shame that the Dark Engine didn't get the mainstream recognition it deserved. What Sean Barrett and Looking Glass Studios created was one of the most important game engines of the turn of the century, quite ahead of its time.
I intend in a (somewhat) distant future to write a series of articles about what Looking Glass brought to gaming, with a more in-depth, technical and objective look than usual homage stories. One of them will have to be a celebration of the Dark Engine.

Quote Posted by demagogue

I think it's an academic issue though since I think there's almost no chance we'll see an editor, knowing the current state of things. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

I share that vision. I got engaged in the discussion on the official forums, but Platinumoxicity somehow foiled all my attempts to write something sensible. My fault for not being concise enough. I think there are two things at hand there:

What the Unreal Engine licencing deal allows Eidos Montreal to distribute
As of today, I haven't seen a single custom UnrealEd release for an Unreal Engine 3 game, let alone talks of such things for Unreal Engine 4. The contract signed between developers and Epic might specifically prohibit redistribution of development assets, either as standalone, or as environments to put on top of the UDK. The recent X-Com was supposed to allow modding at some point, but I don't think any kind of level design tools are available. In itself, it's already a reason to worry.

How Eidos Montreal develop their game plus tools and what kind of internals they are willing to share
Let's suppose that EM can release whatever tools they want from their development environment. What are those tools? Considering that the Unreal Engine is now less an engine than a huge game development framework, considering what it allows straight out of the box, I think we can't expect any customization of the renderer and, by extension, any too specific game tools that might be hard for them to release. That's a good thing. What's more, custom AI and all game logic can be developed from within the editor using UnrealScript. UnrealScript is then compiled into bytecode for the game engine to use. Since I don't expect anyone to distribute freely their full game source code, that leads to the question, what's the extent of scripting which will be allowed if we only have the compiled game logic? How easily will mappers be able add new AI scripts?

Quote Posted by webe123

Could you please edit your post to reduce the size of the quote? It clutters a bit the thread for nothing.
And I don't understand the leap in logic between my "here's how LGS innovated and made their games what they are, defining a genre with specific features and innovations in the case of Thief" and "nothing of this applies considering the developer is different".

In other words, I try to describe objectively what Thief represents in terms of features and innovations, because I assume someone developing a Thief sequel (or reboot) will want to make it at least similar, and at least as good as its predecessors. If that isn't their goal, why bother (rhetorical question, please don't answer)?

bartekb81 on 16/3/2013 at 10:28

Quote Posted by webe123

Oh man.. Let's give up our judgments till some videos with Garrett in action are shown, at least... I hope Garrett won't be Sam Fisher's twin brother in regard to dealing with enemies and his personality will stay the same.
Maybe it was a bad move they've shown Garrett in all its glory. There should be left something for our imagination. I know, it's impossible in era of internet and aggressive marketing, but...

jtr7 on 16/3/2013 at 11:38

I remember the Dark Project team was very impressed and proud of the Act/React system MAHK wrote up as DromEd evolved.
(http://www.thief-thecircle.com/darkproj/diarymonth.html#6-8-98) The Dark Project Project Diary is a cool retro read, and provides a lot of insight into the game-building culture of LGS, as well as showing why their contact with the community was pretty special and makes EM's silence and deflection a shock in comparison.

I'd like to see what you write up, Briareos. Also, TTLG as an LGS-approved LGS memorial site could use something like that, looking to those roots from an ever-increasing distance.

SubJeff on 16/3/2013 at 18:15

Quote Posted by jtr7

looking to those roots from an ever-increasing distance.

Through a spy-glass of ever narrowing tabin ad an alok sanan?

Vivian on 16/3/2013 at 18:21

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

Through a spy-glass of ever narrowing tabin ad an alok sanan?

I've thought about it, and nope, I've got to ask. What the, uh, eff does that mean?

Renzatic on 16/3/2013 at 18:40

I think SE just had a stroke.

SubJeff on 16/3/2013 at 21:20

I was just making as much sense as the guy I was quoting.