Gabucino on 10/9/2013 at 09:18
Quote Posted by Malf
Christ, did you learn English from 2chan?
Allah, no.
june gloom on 10/9/2013 at 10:29
You're so delightfully retarded I think I'm a fan. Keep up the good work, Captain Cretin.
faetal on 10/9/2013 at 11:06
I'm also regretting hiding Gabucino's posts - are they worth a read? Personally, I found the glib, infantile "stop pls" etc.. meme talk too offputting to extract the entertainment value. Koki was regularly worth a read because he was entertaining and variable. Gabucino is like someone wrote a computer program that basically does 2 things: 1) assume superiority, 2) talk like 4chan.
Regarding the tropes thing, I often wonder about one other thing too, probably specifically because I work in science: how much of the trope is examined in isolation? If you look at e.g. 20 different games which use the trope, then it probably looks like a horrific state of affairs, but if you choose a criterion, along the lines of "anything where person A has to save person B due to person B not having the ability themselves" and then looked at every instance of that in games, then THAT would be a better way to define the trope. Otherwise, it's just like confirmation bias to show that game designers hate women or whatever. I'm not saying the latter isn't true, just wondering about how best to examine if it is and if so, to what extent. Otherwise, as Ostriig says - you highlight the problem in a vacuum, the only resolution would be to exclude that scenario entirely to eliminate it.
Sulphur on 10/9/2013 at 20:19
Of course, no one's done a careful run-down of games that use the 'rescue X person' trope and categorised them on a gender-wise basis. That'd call for too much work outside a serious study.
The reason why Sarkeesian et al. are doing what they are is because it's a common theme in gaming (well, fiction in general) to portray women as abstracted/objectified goals, be they a potential romancing situation or a 'she's mine and she was stolen' damsel/distress type deal. It's convenient, lazy shorthand to provide a protagonist something to go after, and the prevailing reason why this happens is because people (guys like us, ostensibly) can 'relate' to it, which tends to work on a basic, primal level; even if that is one of the most superficial of levels, the fact is, it still works, at least until we stop and think a little about it, or reach a saturation point with the trope. You've got tons of RPGs, platformers (Mario, the original Prince of Persia), FPSes, 3PSes, etc. that do this to justify the game's quests/journeys/what have you, so it tends to stand out even if the majority of games employ sufficiently different themes to hook a player.
I doubt there's a confirmation bias, even if people have the tendency to believe it's true just 'cuz, since we've already seen it so often in various mediums. It's usually a hallmark of lazy storytelling, which is where Malf's coming from, and I agree with that in spirit, if not in this particular instance.
Pyrian on 10/9/2013 at 21:20
Quote Posted by Sulphur
Of course, no one's done a careful run-down of games that use the 'rescue X person' trope and categorised them on a gender-wise basis. That'd call for too much work outside a serious study.
Maybe throw a kickstarter to raise the funds and hire EEDAR for the data. :p
faetal on 11/9/2013 at 11:48
I don't think it is wholly a confirmation bias, but I'd say that there is an extent of amplification by post facto cherry picking to reinforce the initial point. I just think the case would be strengthened by a more empirical account of the problem, since that might gauge the extent and even highlight if the problem is concentrated in any specific areas - if there are co-factors.
It's not restricted to games either, as the Bechdel test for films points out nicely. Someone should devise an equivalent for games and see where it applies.
henke on 16/9/2014 at 18:55
Yeah I saw that on FB and read it just after I'd posted here. The guy's rightly been called out enough on suggesting that videogame violence would desensetize you to real violence, so enough about that, but I know what he means about the characters appearing to not show distress. I don't think anyone would accuse TLOU's characters of not showing distress if they just played through the game regularly, but with the Photo Mode's ability to freeze the action at any moment and look around I was struck by how blankfaced the characters often are (see Ellie in my top screenshot) while all kinds of carnage is going on. Of course it's very hard to notice that if you're just playing the game, but the Photo Mode shines a light on that shortcoming.
N'Al on 16/9/2014 at 21:16
I'm assuming - and these are very big assumptions since I've neither played the game nor really looked into its Photo Mode - the developers probably felt coding for 'distressed faces' would be a waste of time since you're normally mostly looking at the back of the characters' heads when playing the game? I guess one alternative would be to give them Max Payne faces, he seemed to be distressed 24/7...
