Malf on 9/9/2013 at 13:45
I know what you're saying Sulphur, but I still think my points are valid. Also, I didn't call TLOU a power fantasy; I compared it to games that are.
The Ellie / David chapter while good, is overall a small part of the game. Afterwards, it settles back into Joel protecting Ellie. It even removes all agency from Ellie at the end with Joel deciding her fate.
If they were really looking at breaking new ground in games, they should have swapped the roles of Joel and Tess.
And while overall the story as it ends isn't about saving the world, it starts out that way.
Let alone which, because they've aimed at creating a new franchise with this title, both Joel & Ellie are alive at the end. Meaning future titles will probably centre around third parties hearing about the miracle girl who is immune. And once again, it becomes a story about saving the world or saving the girl. TLOU is basically a "Chosen One" story, one of the most common stories in sci-fi and fantasy.
That it tries to subvert that is admirable, but at the end of the day, Ellie is still miraculously immune. Her only reason to exist in the story is because of that immunity.
As for the mechanical complaint about areas being locked off behind you, just because other games do it, it doesn't make it right. It comes down to trying to push a narrative forward. It removes a degree of control from the player, and I find it comparable to QTEs in how irritating it can be.
It's an interesting game, and braver than a lot of stuff out there, but I still think being triple-A held it back, and the story it told was lazier than it could have been.
Subjectively, I was much more moved by the tale TWD told where you found TLOU more engaging through its delivery. I think we'll have to agree to differ there. Both tell their tales brilliantly and while I've heaped criticism on TLOU here, I must stress that I really greatly enjoyed it. And the story and characters were far superior to those of Bioshock Infinite for me, which is probably a better game to compare TLOU to than TWD.
It's definitely a must-have for the PS3.
Sulphur on 9/9/2013 at 13:45
@faetal: yup, this is Koki. We should let it go. Let him stew in his own bilious ichor until he eats himself up.
Malf on 9/9/2013 at 13:48
Quote Posted by Gabucino
Your opinion of me is relevant to the topic, because reasons.
Anyone who discusses topics using popular memes should be ignored. Preferably taken out back and shot too.
Gabucino on 9/9/2013 at 14:52
Quote Posted by faetal
> presumptions make you look stupid
> I don't have an opinion of you
faetal pls stop
faetal on 9/9/2013 at 15:16
I'm not sure how your reading comprehension is, but I already said that it was you inane comments I was referring to, not you. I'm now going to do something I've never done on here, which is put you on an ignore list, because unlike Koki, who was occasionally amusing, you are just tedious and not half as clever as you think you are.
[EDIT] Ahhh, that's better :)
Gabucino on 9/9/2013 at 15:35
But why did that self-centered rant had to preclude this act, dare I ask...?
Ostriig on 9/9/2013 at 15:46
Quote Posted by Malf
Minor subtle ending spoiler in this paragraph: Sarkeesian's recent "tropes" videos, as mentioned in a previous post of mine, have really coloured my vision regarding videogame stories, and The Last of Us struggles to escape the "Damsel" trope
and ultimately fails. What a shame. It's quite a moving example of the Damsel trope, but still that trope, just the same.
Maybe I'm missing something, having had jack shit interest in this Sarkeesian malarkey, but how does The Last of Us fit the bill for a "damsel in distress" trope? I've always thought of that particular archetype as requiring at least a little bit of sexualisation as a foundation, as in strong male goes out and rescues weak,
potentially sexable female, playing on those gender roles. TLOU, on the other hand, builds Joel and Ellie's relationship as a father-daughter one, and I can't picture a great deal of difference in plot development had Ellie and Joel's lost child been boys instead of girls. Ellie's vulnerability in the story stems from her age, not her sex (especially in light of Tess's portrayal), and Joel's role as protector is an extension of his parent role. Is this dynamic all that different from, say, Heavy Rain's Ethan Mars struggling to rescue his son?
faetal on 9/9/2013 at 15:55
I wonder about the discussion of such tropes even when they are valid. Of course it's worth noting that culture seems to confine women (not exclusively, but largely) to certain stereotypes when telling a story, but should this then mean that those tropes should preclude all uses of these stereotypes in fiction? Or is it just that we need to get them down to a more realistic proportion of portrayed situations?
Malf on 9/9/2013 at 16:43
The problem is faetal, the vast majority of game stories treat women these ways. It's sex, protection or both. Those stereotypes are fine in moderation, but not when they consist the majority.
And Ostriig, I don't know if you've played TLOU, but the end sequence is Joel killing scores of soldiers while rescuing an unconscious Ellie from a deadly surgical procedure.
I think that fits the Damsel trope pretty neatly.
faetal on 9/9/2013 at 17:03
I get that part. I was wondering what the remedy is and when the "preferred amount" is reached. Also, there needs to be some comment about male stereotypes in games too. The standard, square-jaw alpha dude doesn't do much for the image of how the medium expects men should should look and behave. It's a lesser problem than the former one, since men haven't been dicked over by women in general for all those years, but I'd prefer that over time, we see games giving a more varied portrayal on the sexes (well, people in general actually) overall.
