Vivian on 17/4/2009 at 14:17
So mazz, sounds to me like you are saying your phone is unstable and difficult to use, but you have one because it's open source and therefore cool. and that's different to people who just wanted an iPhone because they're trendy. If I see a phone that's let's me do all the shit I can do on my iphone for less and let's me fiddle with it without cracking it, AND not eat into my working day trying to get it to work, then I'll get one. ATM the moko sounds too leet-chic and impractical. Incidentally I wrote this on an iPhone.
PS iBlob? how's the neckbeard, neckbeard? Sheesh.
Matthew on 17/4/2009 at 14:20
Of course you don't pay a trademark fee for simply writing the name of something. It's hyperbole like this that makes a legitimate aim like open-sourcing look like it's championed by a bunch of fanatics.
And frankly, when it comes to mobile phones I do think that open source is a pretty useless optional extra.
Edit: damn you Vivian
mazzortock on 17/4/2009 at 14:56
Quote Posted by Vivian
So mazz, sounds to me like you are saying your phone is unstable and difficult to use,
Not true, i said:
" I perfectly use my Moko as everyday phone with QTExtend (ex Qtopia from TrollTech) and i can say that it works pretty well"
You can have troubles if you use other (experimental) distros. As said it's normal.
Quote:
but you have one because it's open source and therefore cool.
It's not cool at all. OpenMoko spend exactly ZERO budget for advertising and Marketing. I use it beacause it's the only phone with openhardware on the market, it can do what i want and using it i support in some way the opensource on the phone level. As said it's also a base ethical decision, not only pratical.
Quote Posted by Matthew
It's hyperbole
Of course it's an hyperbole: to explain in one word what do you think about. What's the problem?
Quote:
like this that makes a legitimate aim like open-sourcing look like it's championed by a bunch of fanatics.
Ah cool.
Opensource movement are a "bunch of fanatics", but, of course, Apple users are always not. That's sound very interesting.
Quote:
And frankly, when it comes to mobile phones I
do think that open source is a pretty useless optional extra.
Mobile phone, operating systems or whatever, it's always software, it's the same thing. There a lot of company there, that like to use some technical leashs on users, and the opensource it's here
also to battle against this bad idea.
If you think that the lock-in, for you, it's not a problem, and you are not interested with, that's ok. But you can't say that the opensource is useless on the phones, because simply that's not true. Otherwise, in example, explain why Nokia acquired, for a lot of money, TrollTech that make 100% opensource software.
BEAR on 17/4/2009 at 15:00
I love how open source/linux advocates constantly shoot themselves in the foot by ever opening their mouth. Its like they really don't want anyone else to like things like this. Maybe thats what they really want, they need to be different so hard that they intentionally (subconsciously or not) attempt to sabotage open source so that nobody else will use it, giving them the uniqueness they so badly crave (and they do - every single linux/open source freak I've ever known is like that, and school is fucking full of them).
Brings to mind how people I know snottily try and tell me I should try this distro or that distro every single week, but there is no point because they change it every week. These people don't want a product, they want a hobby. I hate apple and the iphone as much as any self-respecting non-apple person, but this is stupid. I would even overall advocate the type of product this guy is talking about, but he goes about it in such a shitty was as to make it impossible to actually agree with him.
lol neckbeard.
Matthew on 17/4/2009 at 15:16
Quote Posted by mazzortock
Of course it's an hyperbole: to explain in one word what do you think about. What's the problem?
I've already explained the problem; it gives those who read the statement the impression that you either don't know what you're talking about or that you're so fanatical you'll lie to improve your position.
Quote:
Opensource movement are a "bunch of fanatics", but, of course, Apple users are always not. That's sound very interesting.
Don't put words into my mouth, that's not what I said and you are well aware of it. Though come to think of it I've never seen Apple users make disparaging remarks about Openmoko at all.
Quote:
But you can't say that the opensource is useless on the phones, because simply that's not true. Otherwise, in example, explain why Nokia acquired, for a lot of money, TrollTech that make 100% opensource software.
Yes I can, because there is no value-add to a phone that is open-sourced versus a phone that has a closed system. If there
is a value-add, you have singularly failed to show me what it is despite me asking you several times.
And as for Nokia buying Trolltech, considering it has a pretty big stake in Maemo as well I'm not entirely sure
it knew why it was buying them either. Oh, except that it (
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jan2008/gb20080128_783831.htm?chan=globalbiz_europe+index+page_top+stories) put the squeeze on Motorola and Google?
mazzortock on 17/4/2009 at 15:16
Quote Posted by BEAR
Brings to mind how people I know snottily try and tell me I should try this distro or that distro every single week, but there is no point because they change it every week.
More choices is richness, not a bad thing.
And distros don't changes every week, what you confuse are the updates that can be also on everyday basis. Also here: that's good, not a bad thing, at least IMHO.
Quote:
but he goes about it in such a shitty was as to make it impossible to actually agree with him.
What "shitty" exactly ?
If you like to play Thief on a super cool Apple product, i don't mind, really.
I only explain my opinion, if it's still possible without to be insulted.
Ulukai on 17/4/2009 at 15:19
Quote Posted by mazzortock
But, hey, the big difference is that with the Openmoko hardware i can ALWAYS chose
what software install on my phone, and, more important, modify it as i like it. With iPhone and other phones on the market you can't do nothing comparable, simply.
If there's one thing 99% of people don't want to do, it's modify the software on their phone. I'm a programmer myself, but I sure as hell don't want to tinker with my phone OS or substitute it for another one because of THE MAN.
What I want from a phone these days:
* Slick Interface, with touchscreen
* 3G
* Decent Webbrowser
* MP3 Player
* A big choice of applications
As you enjoy installing/deinstalling and modifying software on your phone, then you've made the right choice. But OpenMoloko is clearly not the right choice for most people. Do I care I bougth Trism for £3.99 and can't run it on Android or PedoBob's Dungeon OS 3.42 beta? Nope.
Kolya on 17/4/2009 at 15:59
For the record: I don't think that mazzortock is giving such a bad show. He comes from a different direction than you corporate whores do. (*gazes fondly at his winXP desktop*) But ultimately you know he has a point, because open source software development has a point, if only to force companies to make better proprietary products. If an open source phone OS also comes with all the bells and whistles of a commercial product then it would be pretty darn stupid not to use it. Often that's not the case and I can fully understand people just wanting a usable software that they don't have to beta-test and co-develop. But I wouldn't boast that lazy attitude quite as loudly as some do here and brush off someone like mazzortock as an idiot. If wasn't for people like him and rivaling products with a more open angle, Apple would suck even more of your money from your pockets with DRM and bloated bling-ware than it already does.
So cut the guy some slack, slackers.
Matthew on 17/4/2009 at 16:09
I'm not sure I agree. I would suspect that a competitor's firm coming out with a better product is what drives other vendors to up their game, not an open-source project that, no matter how noble its intentions, will be used by a tiny fraction of the installed userbase. Like, oh hey, the iPhone did.
DRM has been mentioned a couple of times here and it's a bit of a fallacious argument - we're not talking about the music on the phone after all (and hey, iTunes plus and ripped CDs = no DRM on mine anyway).
Likewise, saying that open source users are so much more active and praiseworthy than 'slackers' who use closed systems is missing the point a bit too. I don't want to spend $300 on a phone that might or might not end up working with my UK telco, I want a phone that is guaranteed to work out of the box and has been beta'ed by someone who, unlike me, knew what they were doing. I applaud open-sourcers for their work (I use Firefox and Thunderbird after all), but there are some places where open source software is pretty unnecessary and I think phones are one of them.
Plus, you're well aware that we're not calling mazz an idiot. We're saying that spouting all that 'iBlob' nonsense makes him sound like an idiot.
Kolya on 17/4/2009 at 17:32
Quote Posted by Matthew
a competitor's firm coming out with a better product is what drives other vendors to up their game, not an open-source project that, no matter how noble its intentions, will be used by a tiny fraction of the installed userbase.
Since you mentioned it, take a look at the beginnings of Mozilla,
FirefoxPhoenix & Co, the free apps you hold dearly now, after a few million early adapters have done the developing and early testing for you.
I don't see what difference it makes that we're talking about software running on a mobile phone now. In fact since it doesn't have to deal with being an app in a closed software environment (like Firefox on Windows) it should be easier and faster to develop such an OS.
The linux based RockBox I'm running on my MP3 player is rock solid and runs a plethora of formats the original firmware had no clue about, plus having sophisticated playlist management, letting me play original GameBoy games, etc. It's way better than the original by now, even though when I started using it, it didn't look as nice and sometimes crashed. Pfft. To each their own.
