samIamsad on 17/6/2024 at 02:46
Well, that's always the question isn't it? Even Raf Colantonio faced it with Weird West. And that was only in parts because of the top down perspective. There's a lot of influences here, from Condemned, even bits of the Duke and Action Doom. Same as Weird West had influences from all over the place too, with the twin-stick shooter gameplay at its very core -- and the (oldschool!) Fallout-like exploration moving that from one location to the next.
The way I'm personally playing this, it ticks most of the boxes for me that made me enjoy the likes of Dishonored as well. It's basically Dishonored: The Knife Of Mobster City when I'm playing. Yeah, the tools you have aren't as varied. Mostly it comes down to distracting goons, finding ways past them undetected or killing them (for which there is a range of choice). But no super creative stuff that is part and parcel with Arkane games. Like, turning into a cup of coffee and stuff. Still, that's all I need to feel some agency. As said, Bioshock is MUCH more of a straight shooter experience. In big parts due to the corridor-like level design. In big parts due to enemies respawning endlessly and them going immediately aggro. So that constant conflict is inevitable, and you have no much to ponder how to approach any situation.
Chapter 4 is pretty much taken straight outta Thief, btw. The game isn't even subtle about that, it hits you like a blackjack.
I think on YouTube(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_2fbs5ry4Q&t=518s) GManLives describes the game quite well currently here, including the flaws still there (combat difficulty, lighting sometimes inconsistent, e.g. sometimes you're standing in visually dark areas, but aren't considered as "hidden" in the HUD display and gameplay). Then again, just killing everybody was extremely easy in Dishonored already (particularly the first game). He still very much recommends it.
So do I! :) Hopefully guys like these make a ton of dough and commit to this fo' life. Personally I wouldn't be one complaining. AFAIK, it's still two guys plus (art) externals? It's great to see what tiny teams are able to pull off either way, and makes me hopeful for the future. Whether this game IS an Immersive Sim or not, there's quite a few stuff more going on than in a typical (Boomer) Shooter. The Subreddit has spoken tho. They rest their case. :D
(
https://www.reddit.com/r/ImmersiveSim/comments/1dgew59/fallen_aces_gets_the_imsim_seal_of_approval/)
demagogue on 17/6/2024 at 03:46
Fallen Aces is open sim lite, more of a brawler & shooter with a story. The reason it's getting props here is because it's an indie title made by two folks like us that are basically in the family. That & its sensibility thumbs the scale for being "one of our kind of games".
As I get older, and having worked on a few games, I've grown to appreciate that the task of a good dev is to make a game what it's telling them it wants to be, even if it doesn't fall into a textbook category, and they made this game the way it should be made.
samIamsad on 17/6/2024 at 04:21
Quote Posted by demagogue
As I get older, and having worked on a few games, I've grown to appreciate that the task of a good dev is to make a game what it's telling them it wants to be, even if it doesn't fall into a textbook category, and they made this game the way it should be made.
Lesson well learnt, I'd say.
Quote:
The point of all this talk about computer role-playing games is not to claim that this project of ours is or isn't an RPG. The point is that great games don't happen by shoe-horning your design into a rigid category made up by some magazine.
(
https://web.archive.org/web/19980224020118/www.lglass.com/p_info/dark/manifesto.html)
henke on 17/6/2024 at 04:55
I've just played the first 2 levels, but I've stealth knocked out most of the baddies I've met. The lighting/visibility system is indeed underbaked, but I appreciate that you often need to listen for footsteps to judge the position of enemies, in true Thief fashion. Oh and lean controls would be appreciated at times.
Anyway I think the game does a decent job at letting you "play it your way", tho I don't think you have any agency when it comes to the story, do you?
samIamsad on 18/6/2024 at 18:36
Finished the first Episode of
Fallen Aces. The last level was pretty cool also, a large multi-store building with multiple possible entry points and a big roof too. Just perfect for playing the stealthily way. It's basically the level seen in the demo, but vastly expanded and overhauled and with no loading screens (the demo had several). No wonder they took the demo down. Very much looking forward to the second episode. Difficulty needs a few more tweaks and options though. -10 HP from a straight pistol hit even is too tame. Plus brawling goonies seem rather strangely passive and defensive. Gives you too much of an edge in pumping fists, imo. The one enemy type I had respect for were the snipers. Those hit hard.
I've beeen recently been recommended
Sonar Shock. Looks like to System Shock what Atom RPG was to Fallout: Your favourite game -- but this time from Russia with Vodka. :D
As to the
Arkane discussion going on: I personally wish Bethesda had aquired the rights to do an Indiana Jones game earlier. Firstly: Still decent commercial appeal. Secondly: Unlike Redfall leading to the reported staff turnover and turmoil, perfect fit for Arkane. The starting templates were all being there, 25 years ago. They are called Down In The Bonehoard, The Lost City and several more. Including vague/cryptic in-universe maps with notes that could have been taken straight outta the Grail Diary in The Last Crusade.
Alas, too late.
Quote Posted by henke
Anyway I think the game does a decent job at letting you "play it your way", tho I don't think you have any agency when it comes to the story, do you?
Nah, it's basically the Thief formula. Open-ish levels plus cutscenes / static narrative in between. They've already said that a few of the optional mission objectives will lead to consequences if failed / not taken. There is one mission for instance where you're heavily encouraged to not kill anyone (mission is taken straight outta Thief either way with several direct nods to it). However, so far the only consequence for killing is you getting a stern telling on your radio. Don't think that this will lead to branching narrative.
Likely something connected to the hub/hide-out they are cooking (talking to guys in between missions, buying stuff). Plus the radio programme updating to current events with each mission. But we shall see. :) Hopefully they're not going too broad - a map editor is also cooking. The formula works as is. I'd rather see them finishing the levels and campaign first. And me seeing the end to this. :D
henke on 21/6/2024 at 08:20
Finished Fallen Aces. Levels 1 and 2 were good. 3 was a bit boring (also the only mission during daytime) and caused me to drop the game for a week. Level 4 was great, stealthy mansion break-in. That's also where the story starts coming into focus. Level 5 also really good, open level with a lot of routes and things to see. Gianni Matragrano should win the Oscar for his performance as "goon taking a massive shit".
Malf on 29/7/2024 at 08:37
I'm a bit late to the game here, but I'm currently playing through Gloomwood, and I'm loving it.
It really captures that Thief look and feel, while at the same time adding some Dishonored / Riddick lethality to the mix.
When I'm playing something like this, I really do realise that cutting edge graphics very much take a back-seat to well designed levels and gameplay. In a weird way, I got a better sense of scale when I arrived at the docks of the city than I've had in a lot of games with more modern graphics.
I will admit that I have wussed out and enabled quicksaves, as I can't be doing with making a mistake then losing up to an hour's progress.
I understand the desire to implement a system in order to reduce a dependence a savescumming, but to be honest, this isn't anywhere near as savescummy a game as something like Dishonored.
I have noticed the occasional out-of-place bit of language, such as a "Christ" in one of the notes in the Slaughtered Goat, but I'm sure this is the sort of stuff that will be fixed over the course of early access and the world's mythology finds its feet.
And somewhat weirdly, I've seen some reviews describe it as a survival horror game; I'm guessing that those reviewers have never played an Imm Sim.
Yes, the gramaphone and Gentleman's Case may be seen to be directly influenced by Resident Evil by less experienced players, but we all know that these types of systems have been in Imm Sims since the beginning.
I've also started on Fallen Aces, which seems promising, but hasn't grabbed my attention as much as Gloomwood. One of the main reasons is that I still can't get over how odd the sprite-based enemies look when downed.
I've not gotten out of the first street section yet, so I'll give it some more time once I'm done with Gloomwood.
I've also-also been putting more time into CTRL-ALT-EGO, having put it down after getting stuck a while ago.
And like Gloomwood, this is an excellent example of what Imm Sims can be, with emergent gameplay systems out the wazoo. It's like this game has finally delivered on the experience that Messiah originally promised 24 years ago.
The levels are incredibly well designed, with clearly defined objectives and a seemingly endless number of ways of completing them.
The only issue I have with this one is that it can be very mentally draining, as there are so many layers of complexity. Definitely one to play in shorter bursts rather than extended sessions.
I get a very strong impression that this was made by a Brit. Yes, the voice for CAT is an English guy, but the overall themes and narrative are very Douglas Adams.
Lovely stuff.
Overall, excellent examples all, and they make me hopeful for the future of the genre.
Nameless Voice on 2/8/2024 at 21:51
Gloomwood is a survival horror game that's an immersive sim. All immersive sims also have a genre, since "immersive sim" is a design philosophy.
Twist on 2/8/2024 at 23:39
Quote Posted by Malf
Yes, the gramaphone and Gentleman's Case
may be seen to be directly influenced by Resident Evil by less experienced players
Heh. Dillon Rogers, the creator and main developer of Gloomwood, has explicitly stated on multiple occasions that Resident Evil was one of the main influences on Gloomwood. On Twitter, he's posted a fair amount of playful "inventory porn" while referencing his love of Resident Evil, so I'm pretty confident Gloomwood's inventory mechanic was directly influenced by Resident Evil.
I think he most often cites Thief, System Shock 2, and Resident Evil as the main games that inspired Gloomwood:
henke on 3/8/2024 at 05:41
Also they registered the domain (
www.residenthievil.com) for the game, so yeah, safe to say they're survival horror fans.
Glad to hear you're enjoying the game, Malf. I'm holding out for the full version before playing it again.