Sulphur on 21/10/2023 at 04:07
Quote Posted by samIamsad
At least Immersive Sims had Arkane going strong -- RPGs up to BG3 hadn't seen a big budget release in like ~15 years. And that's only if you still count Dragon Age:Origins into the mix, in itself a heavily "streamlined" and simplified blockbuster version of Baldur's Gate.
This is only true if your definition of 'RPG' is so narrow that it whittles itself down to 'specific games that I played in the 80s to mid 90s', and the definition of 'big budget' for games like Baldur's Gate was probably far less than, say, for Diablo 2. I get that having a big fuck-off CRPG based on a tabletop ruleset with a blockbuster budget is nice, but let's not pretend that that was ever the status quo, like they were being released left and right even back in their heyday.
samIamsad on 21/10/2023 at 04:13
Quote Posted by Sulphur
This is only true if your definition of 'RPG' is so narrow that it whittles itself down to 'specific games that I played in the 80s to mid 90s', and the definition of 'big budget' for games like Baldur's Gate was probably far less than, say, for Diablo 2. I get that having a big fuck-off CRPG based on a tabletop ruleset with a blockbuster budget is nice, but let's not pretend that that was ever the status quo, like they were being released left and right even back in their heyday.
Not going to argue definitions, that's futile. But let's just put it that way: Larian are grateful for all of those remaining studios that a)(
https://twitter.com/felipepepe/status/1036182845797031936) tried their hardest to ever increase their target audience with every new release and b) left an IP such as BG untouched.
And yet: BG3 may share the values still championed in the 1990s moreso than just about any other major Western RPG release of the past two decades. It still doesn't quite play like anything in the 90s/early 2000s. (
https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3-is-a-great-rpg-but-its-also-a-victory-for-the-immersive-sim/) Since, like Original Sin before, it also sports the systemic design common in Immersive Sims, whereas Bioware's Infinity Engine was completely static outside of combat and allowed for no creative solutions for quests. Plus, of course, Co-Op. Larian innovated without turning the entire experience upside down -- and succeeded. It took a while though and had them on the verge of bankruptcy at least once. Maybe a lesson in here for Immersive Sims as well.
Sulphur on 21/10/2023 at 04:25
Sure, because BG was (
https://www.pcgamer.com/larian-was-shot-down-the-first-time-it-wanted-to-make-baldurs-gate-3/) that easy an IP to get. Larian can be grateful, I guess, but they were also off making D:OS and D:OS2 in the many years before BG3 to much success with the same audience, and before that - and you may not have noticed this - they were making games like Divinity 2: Ego Draconis, which was exactly the sort of action RPG that you're dismissing.
It's very easy to reduce things down to 'things were better in the good old days', but there's nothing objectively useful in doing that to make a point, especially because it comes across as trying to fashion nostalgia into some sort of argument.
samIamsad on 21/10/2023 at 04:36
Quote Posted by Sulphur
Sure, because BG was (
https://www.pcgamer.com/larian-was-shot-down-the-first-time-it-wanted-to-make-baldurs-gate-3/) that easy an IP to get. Larian can be grateful, I guess, but they were also off making D:OS and D:OS2 in the many years before BG3 to much success with the same audience, and before that - and you may not have noticed this - they were making games like Divinity 2: Ego Draconis, which was exactly the sort of action RPG that you're dismissing.
Yes, they did. They were pushed by publishers to do this since their first ever Divinity game. Back then Diablo was big. So combat had to be like Diablo, or no funds. With Original Sin, they took a last gamble ... finally could make the type of game they always wanted to make, and succeeded.
Anyway, to get this back on topic: My main point stands. RPGs have always had a reasonable indie scene. Immersive Sims didn't hugely much. And in the light of more recent news (Arkane, Eidos et all), it's not the worst of things to see that indie scene rising some.
Sulphur on 21/10/2023 at 05:14
Quote Posted by samIamsad
Yes, they did. They were pushed by publishers to do this since their first ever Divinity game. Back then Diablo was big. So combat had to be like Diablo, or no funds. With Original Sin, they took a last gamble ... finally could make the type of game they always wanted to make, and succeeded.
Just a little bit of looking things up will tell you that this is not true for Divinity 2: Ego Draconis. From the Divinity Anthology Developer's Journal on the process for creating Divinity 2:
Quote Posted by Larian
Our experiences with publishers and having insufficient funding, had
taught us that it was vital to earn enough money so that we could fund our
next game ourselves. So between 2004 and 2006, we took on an enormous
amount of work for hire, the key aim being to generate sufficient cash
so that we could develop Divinity 2. It wasn't the best nor the fastest
strategy in the world, but it did work. During those times, only a small
team worked on creating Divinity content, but Larian as a business was
building up reserves, reserves that were going to be sorely needed when
making the next Divinity...Quote:
Anyway, to get this back on topic: My main point stands. RPGs have always had a reasonable indie scene. Immersive Sims didn't hugely much. And in the light of more recent news (Arkane, Eidos et all), it's not the worst of things to see that indie scene rising some.
This, I can agree with. I've always believed immersive sims had far more potential with a lower budget, thus giving them much more freedom to experiment instead of worrying about having to make millions upon millions back in sales. We don't need a beautiful next-gen Deus Ex made by 1200 people (though it would be nice to see the end of Adam Jensen's story), what we need is games like Shadows of Doubt, which is janky and a bit shit in key areas, but has the conviction to try something ambitious in the vein of Spector's 'one city block' ideal, and yet also very different, and it may possibly even succeed.
Starker on 21/10/2023 at 05:28
I thought Consortium had some real promise, but it looks like it isn't going anywhere. Prolly bit off a bit too much.
Starker on 21/10/2023 at 07:19
Yeah, they posted a similar thing as a Kickstarter update some half a year ago, but there has been radio silence ever since.
Nameless Voice on 21/10/2023 at 21:00
[video=youtube;3VXFJA7C6vA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VXFJA7C6vA[/video]
Immersive sim and Dark Messiah-inspired kicking simulator (
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wabba/sorceress) Sorceress currently has a Kickstarter running.
Demo looks pretty promising. It's a bit more light-hearted than my usual prefernce, but I do kind of like the "sorcerer's apprentice" vibe of the runaway magical constructs who just continue whatever random tasks they were assigned when not actively fighting you.
Plus, you can jump into the air and kick enemies with both feet, that's got to count for something!
henke on 22/10/2023 at 09:00
That does look cool! Backed!
